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Baptism?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ryan2065, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Well, Peter said no scripture is for private interpretation. However, eveyone can have there own opinion. Is someone thinks that so and so has the right to interpret, then that's there rightful opinion. However, Peter would disagree. That's all I'm saying. And Netdoc, to discover the true meaning of baptism we must search the Scriptures and observe its vaired usages, for starters. Of course Baptism now is an English word; the Greek baptisma is directly transliterated into English. The root form of the word baptisma is bapto, which means "to dip". Bapto is also part of the word translated "dippeth", embapto. From the root bapto arise four words. 1. Baptizo - to make things bapto, dipped. 2. Baptismos -the act of dipping or washing which is the act of baptizing; this does not occur in any Church epistle; four accurances of this word are in Mark 7:4, 7:8 Hebrews 6:2, 9:10. 3. Baptisma - the result of baptismos; it is used twenty-two times in the Bible. thirteen refer to John's baptism, five to the Lord's baptism, three are found in Paul's epistels, and the last is in Peter. 4. Baptistes-the one who does the baptizing.

    Now, there are only a few instances where these words are not directly transliterated into English as "baptize" but are instead translated as 1. Bapto is translated "dip" in Luke 16:24" And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip [bapto] the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame"

    John 13:26"Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [bapto] it...

    Revelation 19:13" And he was clothed with a vesture dipped [bapto] in blood; and his name is called The Word of God"

    2. Embapto is translated as follows in its only usages. Matthew 26:23"And he answered and said, He that dippeth [embapto] his hand with me in the dish, the same shall betray me. Mark 14:20" and he answered and said unto them , It is one of the twelve, that dippeth [embapto] with me in the dish" John 13:26"Jesus answered, He it is, to whom I shall give a sop, when I have dipped [bapto] it. And when he had dipped [embapto] the sop, he gave it to Judas Iscariot, the son of Simon"

    3. Baptizo is consistenly transliterated "baptize" except in three usages. Mark 6:14" And king Herod heard of him (for his name was spread abroad) and he said, That John the Baptist [baptizo] was risen from the dead, and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him" Mark 7:4 " And when they come from the market, except they wash [baptizo], they eat not... Luke 11:38" And when the Parisee saw it, he marvelled that he had not first washed [baptizo] before dinner"

    Of the four uses of baptismos it is only once translated "baptism" Hebrews 6:2. Mark 7:4 And when they come from the market, except they wash, they eat not. And many other things there be, which they have received to hold, as the washing [ baptismos] of cups, and pots, brasen vessels, and of tables" Mark 7:8 " For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing [baptismos] of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do" Hebrews 9:10 " Which stood [serving] only in meats and drinks and divers washings [baptismos], and carnal ordinances, imposed on them until the time of reformation [rectification]"

    So... from every Biblical usage of the word "baptism" one can only conclude that the root meaning and the basic thought in baptism is washing. Therefore, one should note three other words in the Greek which also mean "to wash". 1. Nipto - to wash a portion of one's body. Matthew 15:2 "Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 2. Louo- to bathe or wash the entire body; from which we also get our word "ablution". Hebrews 10:22 "Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 3. Pluno-to wash or rinse inanimate things; ordinarily this word is used in speaking of washing clothes. Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

    Those three Greek words fully cover the subject of washing. The word wash is used in the definition of each one of the above words. Logically, one must conclude that the verb baptizo has a meaning in common with all of these three aforementioned Greek words, yet must be distinct from each. A close study of each usage of baptizon reaveals that baptizo does not denote the removal of bodily uncleaness or filth, but rather the removal of ceremonial uncleaness and is symbolic washing. The outward cleansing of the flesh by washing or baptism was to symbolize spiritual cleaniness. Entrance into the tabernacle was conditioned by baptism. See Exodus 30:18-24.

    The day of Pentecost founded a new period or administration. Begin ten days before Pentecost at the time of the ascension in Acts 1:4,5: "And being assembled together with them [the apostles], [Jesus Christ] commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence"

    In other words with the coming of the greater, the lesser came to an end. Therefore, being baptized into the body of Christ doesn't mean baptized (symbolic washing) with the element of water, but baptized (symbolic washing) with a new spiritual element of Holy Spirit. I John "But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin."

    If one is to rightly divide the Word of God, one must allow the Bible to speak for itself and not read into it the theologies and doctrines of men. To bring further light to the subject, look at a verse of Scripture which is often quoted during the ceremony of water baptism. Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". This verse clearly states that the apostles were to teach ["make disciples of"] all nations. And yet, the Old Testament states that Israel would never be numbered among the nations. Thus, this command could only hold true for Gentiles ["nations"]. Later, in the epistles, written specifically to born-again believers, the Church is "called out' from both the Gentiles and Jews. Secondly, the phrase "baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" is never carried out by the apostles or by anyone else in the early Church. Eusebious (340 A.D.), the first great Church historian, quoted from manuscripts which could not have had these words. He quoted Matthew 28:19 eighteen times without ever using these words. Justin Martyr (165 A.D.) and Aphraates of Nisbis (340 A.D) never quoted these words either. Now whatever Jesus said at that time surely would have been important enough for the apostles to remember. Yet in Acts 2:38, the first record after the original outpouring on the day of Pentecost, Peter "baptized in the name of Jesus Christ", not "in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost". If the command in Matthew 28:19 were truly given, then ten days later Peter had already forgotten what Jesus had told him. Not likely, but could have happened. Yeah, right. Look, have your personal opinions, God does not care. He only cares about what's in our hearts. But if anyone seriously wants to know the Word of God, then they must allow the Word of God to interpret itself. And the Word is very, very clear that the only possible way to become clean, is by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ. That is our baptism. Revelation 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
     
  2. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Yo

    OT=OLD TESTAMENT. You stated that baptism was an OT law. IF one is to "rightly divide the word of God" then maybe one should study baptism in the OT before one tells us it is an OT law.
     
  3. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Netdoc, I'm beginning to doubt your powers of observation. Are you trying to tell me you do not know what was used for cleansing in the Old Testament inside the temple and outside the temple? If you do not know what was used then, what makes you think that you know baptism in the New? Well, now... I'm under the impression that you do not know of baptism in the Old Testament, or maybe you just haven't gotten that far in the book yet. But that would only bring you to Exodus, the second chapter of the Word (in most bibles). "And the Lord spake unto Moses, saying, Thou shalt also make a laver, brass, and his foot, of brass, to wash: and thou shalt put it between the tabernacle of the congregation and the altar, and thou shalt put water therein. For Aaron and his sons shall wash their hands and their feet thereat: When they go into the tabernacle of the congregation, they shall wash with water, that they die not. So they shall wash their hands and their feet, that they die not." In the 40th Chapter of the Scriptures we see "And he set the laver between the tent of the congregation and the altar, and put water there, to wash. And Moses and Aaron and his sons washed their hands and their feet thereat. When they went into the tent of the congregation, and when they came near unto the altar, they washed; as the Lord commanded Moses" Now was that hard? I Kings 7:23-39 give great detail about the temple of Solomon when it replaced the tabernacle and the baptism during that era. Also there is Ezekiel, which is yet to come, "Afterward he brought me again unto the door of the house; and, behold, waters issued out from under the threshold of the house eastward: for the forefront of the house, the east, and the waters came down from under, from the right side of the house, at the south of the altar. Then brought he me out of the way of the gate northward, and led me about the way without unto the outer gate by the way that looketh eastward; and, behold, there ran out waters on the right side. And when the man that had the line in his hand went forth eastward, he measured a thousand cubits, and he brought me through the waters; the waters were to the ankles. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through the waters; the waters were to the knees. Again he measured a thousand, and brought me through; the waters were to the loins. Afterward he measured a thousand; and it was a river that I could not pass over: for the waters were risen, waters to swim in, a river that could not be passed over. And he said unto me, Son of man, hast thou seen? Then he brought me, and caused me to return to the brink of the river." Usually at this point Net, you throw a stone and tell me you'd rather trust in Jesus rather then Sellesie, or if you are Scott you label me a Protestant and then reflect that your view is superior of mine but none of you quoted any Old Testament scripture but yet instructed me to study the OT more.
     
  4. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Yes I agree totally, the New Testament requires both repentance and baptism, we also have to hear the word, believe, repent, confess Christ Jesus, and be baptized, oh not forgetting to live faithfully, everything a baby can't do..they dont have the understanding..
     
  5. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Why doesn't anyone listen???? :(

    • we also have to hear the word, believe -- part of Confirmation
    • repent -- part of Confirmation
    • confess Christ Jesus -- part of Confirmation
    • and be baptized, -- already done
    • oh not forgetting to live faithfully -- part of life as a Christian, but Confirmation provides grace to do so.
    Cool title btw!:bounce
    Scott
     
  6. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    True Blood,

    was baptism mentioned in that passage? You are referring to the rituals of cleanliness which were never for repentence.

    A key word search on "baptism", "immerse" and "immersion" on www.BibleGateway.com (using the NIV) brings up no OT references to any of those terms. None, nada, squat, zilch.

    So please give us a REAL reference to a baptism of repentence within the OT. You can keep inferring that I do not study the scriptures and that I am a scriptural rube and that's OK. If it helps you sleep at night call me anything you want. But to contend that "baptism" was an OT rite and not be able to come up with an OT example of baptism means that you were -wrong-. Not evil, or a rube or any thing else. Just simply -wrong-. I have had to admit that before, in fact I have admitted millions of times in my life. Show me the example and I will admit to being wrong now.

    BTW, for what it's worth, I DO trust Jesus more than I trust you. Sue me for throwing those types of stones.
     
  7. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Scott we listen... we just don't see "confirmation" in the scriptures. We also believe repentance should be PRIOR to and a part of baptism, just as Peter put it in Acts 2:38. Baptism has always been an act of repentance. Check out John's message to the Pharisees and Sadducees:

    Matthew 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees coming to where he was baptizing, he said to them: "You brood of vipers! Who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? 8 Produce fruit in keeping with repentance. 9 And do not think you can say to yourselves, 'We have Abraham as our father.' I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham. 10 The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.
    11 "I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me will come one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not fit to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire. 12 His winnowing fork is in his hand, and he will clear his threshing floor, gathering his wheat into the barn and burning up the chaff with unquenchable fire." NIV

    You see the Pharisees and Sadducees were relying on their lineage: they were born a part of the annointed nation. We see the baptism of infants in much the same light. The NT makes it plain to me that salvation demands a decision. Once you are cut to the heart with the fact that YOU are responsible for Jesus' death, repentance and baptism are next.

    So it's not that we are not listening to you, but we see the same scriptures in a far different light.
     
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  8. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    I explained and gave examples of the varied usage of the word used throughout the bible and logically it is used for washing. Baptism is the ceremonial cleansing. And the New Testament teaches that our only work is to accept Him. He then washes away our sin. You support that being dipped into water is necessary for repentence. Sorry but that just sounds silly. Can we not repent and be baptized (washed) in the name of Jesus Christ without being dipped into water? Does the water need to be hot or cold, and what if we are in the desert with no water? Can we still be baptized (washed) in the name of Jesus Christ? The Scriptures state that the "called-out" from Jews and Gentiles would be baptized (washed) with holy spirit in the name of Jesus Christ. It does not state that we would be baptized (washed) in water. Jesus Christ himself states that John baptized (washed) with water but we would be baptized (washed) with Holy Spirit. It's people like you and Scott who was Paul's thorn in the flesh. Maybe we are just understanding the word baptism differently. Could you please provide some similar words with the same meaning so that I could understand you more?
     
  9. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    John baptized with water. But after John would come one (Jesus Christ) who is more powerful than I. He will baptize (wash) with the holy spirit and with fire. You see, water would no longer be used for the baptizing (washing). This is my argument. Holy spirit replaces the water. And the Scriptures are very clear that there is only one baptism. So either it's a washing with water or its a washing with holy spirit. It cannot be both.
     
  10. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    OK, you couldn't find an example of "Baptism for repentance" in the Old Testament. Are we agreed on that?

    Now, find ONE conversion in the NT that does not involve baptism. I had pointed this out before, but I don't think you did it.

    Also, if NT baptism did NOT require water, how do you explain the Ethiopian Eunuch? A typo?

    You've been harping on Scott about "private interpretations" and yet you descend into semantics to explain away something that is very plain in the scriptures. It's not EITHER water or the Spirit, it is water AND the Spirit.

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. 6 Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. 7 You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' 8 The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit." NIV

    Now let's deal with the "cleaning issue":

    I Peter 3:18 For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God. He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit, 19 through whom also he went and preached to the spirits in prison 20 who disobeyed long ago when God waited patiently in the days of Noah while the ark was being built. In it only a few people, eight in all, were saved through water, 21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also┬Śnot the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ, 22 who has gone into heaven and is at God's right hand┬Świth angels, authorities and powers in submission to him. NIV

    If NT baptism did not involve water, then why is Peter telling us it's "Not the removal of dirt from the body".

    Lets look once more at the DIFFERENCE between John's and Jesus' baptism.

    Acts 19:1 While Apollos was at Corinth, Paul took the road through the interior and arrived at Ephesus. There he found some disciples 2 and asked them, "Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?"
    They answered, "No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit."



    3 So Paul asked, "Then what baptism did you receive?"
    "John's baptism," they replied.
    4 Paul said, "John's baptism was a baptism of repentance. He told the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus." 5 On hearing this, they were baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus. 6 When Paul placed his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they spoke in tongues and prophesied. 7 There were about twelve men in all. NIV

    Notice the scripture says "Into" and not "with" the name of Jesus.

    Many years ago, a preacher was asked about what he thought about I Peter 3:21. His succinct reply was "Peanut Butter!" "Peanut butter!?! How on earth do you get Peanut Butter out of I Peter 3:21???" "I don't but you haven't believed what the Bible said, so I didn't expect that you would believe me either."
     
  11. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I thought we've been over this a few times before... Confirmation is part of Baptism... we just perform the act differently than you do... so if it helps anyone understand, the "norm" for the Rite is an adult ... who is Baptised and Confirmed at the same time..... but I sure hope you can appreciate the notion that we want to impart the Grace of God into our newborn children... and complete the rite of Baptism when they have attained the age of reason to truly be repentant.

    Scott
     
  12. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Strange, isn't it, how what can be "very clear" to one person isn't clear at all to someone else? It not only can be both, it must be both. We are required to be born of water and of the Spirit. And please don't tell me that baptism by water is synonomous with being born. If that were the case, Jesus Christ himself would have been born of water twice -- once when he was born to Mary and a second time when John baptized Him, as would the many other individuals whom John baptized.

    Being born of the Spirit refers to receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is part of the ordinance of confirmation, which is done after baptism. With the gift of the Holy Ghost, one's membership in Christ's Church is confirmed. As, as the word "confirm" implies, he is "strengthened and made strong." This gift can only be given by one who holds the proper authority to do so.

    Acts 8:12-19 describes the sequence of events which is to take place:

    But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Then Simon himself believed also: and when he was baptized, he continued with Philip, and wondered, beholding the miracles and signs which were done. Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John: Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.) Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money, Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

    Regardless of whether the word "confirmation" is used in the scriptures or not, the procedure is clearly outlined. This is a saving ordinance, just as baptism is. Both are required in order for the fulness of salvation to be realized.


     
  13. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Actually, there is the indwelling of the Holy Spirit which happens at the TIME of baptism and then there are "spiritual gifts" which require laying on of the Apostle's hands. As I Corinthians 13 teaches, these type of things will pass, but LOVE will continue on.
     
  14. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Amen! That's about all I've learned from this thread... sprinkle, dunk, immersion, young, old, infants, believers... whatever.... as long as we have faith and love in Christ and are sincerly doing what we believe is right in God's eyes, then I believe God will bless each and every one of us!

    :D
     
  15. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Scot, As ND has said and I have to agree with Him, I don't see cofirmation in the bible either but since you think no one is listening, then please show me where we see people in the bible, making their Holy comunion or confirmation ? Its been a loooooong time since I made mine But then I didn't read the bible back then either :( ..If you don't mind me sharing with you here is how I see Baptism to me it is for all who have heard the good news, believed, repented of their sins, are able to confess Christ Jesus...

    The Great comission for us is to go and make Disciples baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Matt 28:18-19...So how do we make disciples, I believe through preaching the Gospel.

    Mark 16:15- 16 it tells us, "Go into all the world and Preach the Good news to everyone anyone who believes and is Baptised will be saved but anyone who refuses to believe will be condemned...

    Samples of conversions

    Penticost
    Acts 2:14-41 Repented v 37-38 baptized v38-41 Remission of sins 38:47 saved.

    Samaria
    Acts 8:5-13 Believed v12 and was baptized v 12:13

    Eunuch
    Acts 8:35-39 Believed 36-37 confessed v37 baptized v38 rejoiced v39

    Saul
    Acts 9:17-18 baptized v18 sins washed away 22:16


    Cornelius
    Acts 10:34-46 Believed v43 baptized v48

    The jailor
    Acts 16:32 Believed v31 Baptized v33

    Lydia

    Acts 16:13 Attended v14 Baptized v15

    In All of these conversions we can see that preaching was done first...

    Romans 10 :14 But How can they call on Him to save them UNLESS they BELIEVE in him and how can they BELIEVE in him if they have never HEARD about him and how can they hear about him unless someone tells them..

    Hebrews 11:6 And it is impossible to please God without FAITH, anyone who wants to come to him MUST BELIEVE that God exists and he rewards those who sincerly seek Him

    Luke 13:3 Not at all, And you will perish too unless you REPENT of your sins and turn to God.

    Romans 10:10 For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God and it is by confessing with your mouth that you are saved.

    Gal 3:27 and all who have been united with Christ in Baptism have put on the Character of Christ like putting on new clothes.

    And Finally my last point


    In Eph 4:4-6 Paul tells his readers that there is " one body and one Spirit, one Lord, One faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all".

    Preaching, faith, Repentance, confession of Christ Jesus ALL come before Baptism and with Baptism it brings the forgiveness of sins and salvation.. ;)
     
  16. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I give up. :areyoucra

    Peace be with you.
    Scott
     
  17. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Now Scott, were GlasgowChick and I to fully agree with you, we would have to convert. She is not asking you to change as much as she is explaining the Biblical position on baptism. You don't have to ascribe to it, but please accept it as how we see it.
     
  18. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    I see water baptism as symbolic of spritual baptism which occurs the moment one accepts Christ into their heart, the deal in acts was a special event as I said before, not a pattern.

    I Cor 12:13 For by one SPIRIT are we all BAPTIZED into ONE BODY, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been ALL made to drink into ONE SPIRIT..

    This shows we our baptized into the body of Christ, by the Holy Spirit, at the moment we believe. And that says we ALL ALL have been, not some who just got saved but didnt get the 'baptism of the Holy Spirit', but ALL of us were baptized by the Spirit into the body of Christ the moment we believed.

    Ephesians 4:5 One lord, one faith, one baptism.

    There is only one baptism, this speaking of spiritual baptism.

    Galations 3 26-27 For ye are ALL the children of God by FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST. For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

    Again, we are ALL his children by FAITH, baptized by the Holy Spirit into the body of Christ.

    Romans 6:3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

    We were baptized INTO the body of Christ by the Holy Spirit, when we first believed, believer's baptism is a symbol of that wonderful event. Kinda like I got a souvenir from vacation, it symbolizes the vacation, but it sure isn't the vacation itself.

    Colossians 1:20 And, having made peace through the BLOOD of his cross, by HIM to reconcile all things unto himself; by HIM, 2:9-10 For in HIM dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are COMPLETE in HIM; which is the head of all principality and power, 12-17 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him throuth the FAITH of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead, And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath HE quickened together with him, having forgiving you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it. Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or if drink, or in respect of a holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days; Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

    So, thru his BLOOD, he bought us and we are complete in HIM, baptism here again is spiritual.
    I am not saying it is used spriritually all the time, and I do believe in a believers baptism, just not as part of salvation, although I see where others can tie them together.

    Ephesians 5:18 exorts us to be filled with the spirit, other places say dont quench or grieve the Spirit, and our bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit. To me there is ONE BAPTISM (Eph.4:5), and MANY fillings. Baptism into the body of Christ occurs the moment we believe and many other things happen then to, like we are indwelt, sealed, and gifted by the Holy Spirit, adopted into God's family, made a new creation, are sins are blotted out, we are saved!

    I Cor 1:17 For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel; not with wisdom of words, LEST THE CROSS OF CHRIST SHOULD BE MADE OF NONE EFFECT.

    Now, Paul water baptized believers, but he distinguishes here that it is THE CROSS OF CHRIST, His death, His blood, that saves us, nothing else saves us, there is no other name given, no other payment, and it is a free gift(see Romans chapter 5). If you all want to add ANYTHING more than accepting the free gift of salvation because of CHRIST"S BLOOD ALONE, then go ahead, I continue to trust in HIS DEATH ALONE, and that my baptism symbolized the REAL baptism I got when I accepted Christ and was transformed. I WILL NOT ADD ANYTHING TO THAT! My baptism and good works are a result of my trusting in Christ, and I was baptized and I do works, but not to get or keep saved, but as an outward expression of my faith. I will not change on that. PEACE!
     
  19. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    So Joe,

    you gotta give me ONE REFERENCE in the scriptures that asks us to "accept Jesus into our hearts". Now go back and read Acts 2:38 and it will tell you where we get the "gift of the Holy Spirit". In baptism.

    you also gotta show me where Jesus was "spiritually" baptized. I only see our Lord undergoing water baptism.

    As for 1 Corinthians 1:17, Paul did not say that baptism should not be done... but that the most important thing for him was to preach the gospel.
     
  20. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Here is some verses on Confirmation for those interested.
    Acts 8:14-17 - the people of Samaria were baptized in Christ, but did not receive the fullness of the Spirit until they were confirmed by the elders. Confirmation is a sacrament that Jesus Christ instituted within His Catholic Church to further strengthen those who have reached adulthood.

    Acts 19:5-6 - the people of Ephesus were baptized in Christ, but Paul laid hands on them to seal them with the Holy Spirit. This sealing refers to the sacrament of confirmation.

    Eph. 1:13 - Paul writes that the baptized Ephesians were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, in reference to confirmation.

    Eph. 4:30 - Paul says the Ephesians were sealed in the Holy Spirit of God, in reference to the sealing of confirmation.

    Heb. 6:2 - Paul gives instruction to the Hebrews about the laying on of hands, in reference to confirmation, not ordination. The early Church laid hands upon the confirmand to administer the sacrament of confirmation.

    Heb. 6:2 - this verse also refers to the cycle of life and its relationship to the sacraments - baptism, confirmation, death and judgment - which apply to all people.

    John 6:27 - Jesus says the Father has set His seal on Him. As the Father sets His seal on Jesus, so Jesus sets His seal on us on the sacrament of baptism, and later, in the sacrament of confirmation. Rev. 9:4 - the locusts could not harm those with the seal of God upon their foreheads. See also Rev. 14:1 and 22:4.

    Peace In Christ
    ~Victor
     
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