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Baptism?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ryan2065, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Why is it Christians still do Baptism if they do not believe the creation story of Adam and Eve is literal? If one doesn't believe the Adam and Eve story is literal, it would stem to reason there shouldn't really be "origional sin" because this concept is based off Adam and Eve.
     
  2. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Just because we don't read that particular story as literal does not mean that we don't believe in original sin. The account of the fall in Genesis 3 uses figurative language, but affirms a primeval event, a deed that took place at the beginning of the history of man.
     
  3. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    A lot more goes on in Baptism than the cleansing of original sin ( not all of us believe in original sin any way.)
    In Jesus time Baptism was an adult thing. as it is in many Churches today. where it is more to do with their own sins.
    It is also the time when God parents Take a solemn vow to Bring up the child in a Christian way and to see that the child has the necessary Christian teaching.

    Terry
    ____________________________________
    Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
     
  4. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Rival's Wife

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    I was told by the pastor of the church I used to go to that the motions in baptism are symbolic. When the person is "dunked" (I can't think of anyother words to better describe it), that represents the death of Christ. When the person is brought out of the water, it represents Christ's resurection, and victory over death.
     
  5. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    Quite correct.
    We'll have to disagree on this one.;)
     
  6. scitsofreaky

    scitsofreaky Active Member

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    I was always taught it was just a way for one to show everybody else that you believed in Jesus.
     
  7. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Water baptism is a sybmolic representation of the baptism of spirit and fire that Jesus administers when one accepts Him into their heart.
     
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  8. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    The Roman Catechism (Ad parochos, De bapt., 2, 2, 5) defines baptism thus: Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration by water in the word (per aquam in verbo). St. Thomas Aquinas (III:66:1) gives this definition: "Baptism is the external ablution of the body, performed with the prescribed form of words." Later theologians generally distinguish formally between the physical and the metaphysical defining of this sacrament. By the former they understand the formula expressing the action of ablution and the utterance of the invocation of the Trinity; by the latter, the definition: "Sacrament of regeneration" or that institution of Christ by which we are reborn to spiritual life. The term "regeneration" distinguishes baptism from every other sacrament, for although penance revivifies men spiritually, yet this is rather a resuscitation, a bringing back from the dead, than a rebirth. Penance does not make us Christians; on the contrary, it presupposes that we have already been born of water and the Holy Ghost to the life of grace, while baptism on the other hand was instituted to confer upon men the very beginnings of the spiritual life, to transfer them from the state of enemies of God to the state of adoption, as sons of God. The definition of the Roman Catechism combines the physical and metaphysical definitions of baptism. "The sacrament of regeneration" is the metaphysical essence of the sacrament, while the physical essence is expressed by the second part of the definition, i.e. the washing with water (matter), accompanied by the invocation of the Holy Trinity (form). Baptism is, therefore, the sacrament by which we are born again of water and the Holy Ghost, that is, by which we receive in a new and spiritual life, the dignity of adoption as sons of God and heirs of God's kingdom. source :- http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02258b.htm#II:)
     
  9. Ryan2065

    Ryan2065 Well-Known Member

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    Ahh, thank you =) It just confused me a little... I was always taught that baptism was to wash away origional sin. So I just got a little confused!
     
  10. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I would have thought even statistacaly more aldults than children would have been baptised during Jesus time.

    Terry
    _______________________________
    Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
     
  11. Scott1

    Scott1 Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure that's true... but I just wanted to make the distinction that not ONLY adults were baptized during "Jesus time"... there are accounts of whole families being baptized in the Scriptures.
     
  12. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    The early Christian communities knew that they were supposed to baptize infants, and they did so. It doesn’t matter that this was not explicitly commanded in Scripture, it was explicitly commanded by the apostles, and the Church has never been in any doubt that infants are to be baptized, Scripture or no Scripture.

    The Least
    ~Victor
     
  13. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    I totally agree. Infants should be baptised. But there is still a necessary place for those who convert or missed out 1st. time around.or for children of parents who decided to wait till the were more able to decide for them selves.adult baptism is not at all unusual in the church of England.
    Terry
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    Amen! Truly I say to you: Gather in my name. I am with you.
     
  14. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    Out of interest,is it possible to be baptized more than once ? - (for the purposes of a 're-affirmation) ?:)
     
  15. Steve

    Steve Active Member

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    You assume Christians dont belive the creation story of Adam and Eve is literal. However this is not true, while some do belive it to be figurative many do not.



    You are right in questioning original sin or the fall if we dont take the adam and eve story as history.

    In Mark 10:6 Jesus makes it clear that he belives that humans were created at the beginning
    "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'
    which agrees with Genesis 1:27.

    Should someone inform Jesus the author of life (acts 3:15, john 1:3) that he is mistaken? That he didnt really create everything "very Good" but actually he used death, disease, suffering etc. Well if thats what you belive then you can explain that to him when you stand befor him.

    Adam and Eve were real people, and they rebelled against God.

    Romans 5:12
    Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin...


    For the most part Christians have belived in the literal Adam and Eve, its only been in the last 100 years give or take that they have started to compromise on aspects such as these and it is primarly due to a theory that requires a huge amount of faith weather its proponents like to admit it or not.
     
  16. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Ryan,
    That's what I was taught in catechism <cough cough> years ago. :D I don't know if the Catholic church has changed their stance on this or not.

    At the Baptist churches we've been attending lately, baptism is looked at as a symbolic gesture of accepting Christ as Saviour and Lord and being reborn into the Spirit.
     
  17. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    Yes, at least in the Baptist churches we've been attending.
     
  18. scitsofreaky

    scitsofreaky Active Member

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    What kind of baptist churches have you been going to?
     
  19. Sabio

    Sabio Active Member

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    Ryan, Excellent question. Once a Christian allows his faith to be undermined through listening to Satan combine truth with lies, like he did with Adam and eve in the garden ("Hath God said"), it won't be long before that Christian is questioning the Immaculate Conception, Virgin Birth, and Sacrifice of Christ.

    Many modern (Chrisitian) scholars have gone down a slippery slope when they refute the teachings of the Bible.

    Yes there are some things in the Bible that are literal, and there are some that are symbolic, but the lesson is not diluted, original sin was brought into the world through the transgression of man, commited while utilizing his free will to choose.

    Sabio
     
  20. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    You don't need to be baptised twice,in the CofE. though I have known a couple who converterd from another Church to be baptised as adults. But why that was so I don't know.
    The normal procedure is to be Confirmed.( which can be at any age)

    Terry
    _____________________________
    Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.
     
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