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Baptism?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Ryan2065, Jul 11, 2005.

  1. joeboonda

    joeboonda Well-Known Member

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    John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that BELEIVETH ON ME HATH everlasting life.

    Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should BOAST. For we are HIS workmanship, created in Jesus Christ UNTO good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

    When do we get everlasting life? When we believe we HAVE it. Is it of our works? NO, lest any man should boast. Should we obey God once we are saved by being baptized, and doing good works? Of course, for we are HIS workmanship, created UNTO good works. Salvation is a FREE gift, the works following show others we truly believe and are a natural result of our having been saved by the grace(undeserved, unmerited favor) of God.

    Romans 5:15-18 But not as the offence, so also is the FREE GIFT; for if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the GRACE of God, and GIFT by GRACE, which is by one man, Jesus Christ hath abounded unto many. And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the GIFT; for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the FREE GIFT is of many offences unto justification. For if by one man's offence death reigned by one, MUCH MORE they which receive ABUNDANCE OF GRACE and of the GIFT of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ. Therefore, as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the FREE GIFT came upon all men unto justification of life.

    How many times is free gift and grace found here? Salvation is free to all who believe, works following as a result, nothing more. Now if a man says he believes in Jesus, and has no desire to be baptized or do good works, or love others, or change at all, then, of course one might question his faith. Actually, I would strongly question a person who would refuse believers baptism, as that is the natural next step in our 'growing in grace', so, I do not think we are too far apart on that.

    Now, man looks after the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart. So sometimes, as we still have a sin-nature we battle, one may not be able to tell if someone is a christian or not, based on what they see on the outside. So I would be slow to judge, and let God judge, for he knows each man's heart. PEACE!
     
  2. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Jesus in ALL THINGS set us an example that we should follow his steps, he was the example for christian living for the christian idividual and also a living example for his called ministers IPeter 2:21.

    Jesus though committed no sins to be remitted, was BAPTIZED setting the Example for us...We read in Mathew 3:13 Then Jesus arrived from Galilee at the Jordan coming to John to be BAPTIZED by Him 14,But John tried to prevent him saying " I have need to be Baptized by You and do you come to me 15, But Jesus said to Him " Permit it at this time, for in the way it is fitting for us to FULFILL ALL RIGHTEOUSNESS, then he permitted Him...

    So I Guess the question now is,,have we repented and been Baptised , have we listened to God and fufilled All righteousness ?...Only each one of us can answer that for ourselves..
     
  3. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    So Joe,

    how are we to become Christians according to the scriptures?
     
  4. glasgowchick

    glasgowchick Gives Glory to God !!!

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    Hi Joe, I believe that if it wasn't for the grace of God we would all be doomed, but instead we read in John 3:16 " For God so loved the world, that He gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in Him should not perish. Yes this is mighty grace Joe and such love, there is nothing we can do to save ourselves, it is a free gift from God..While this is all true it doesn't stop there, Our belief calls us to repentance [ A turning around ] once we do that we are commanded to be baptized for the forgiveness of sins and we will recieve the gift of the Holy Spirit..

    To say we are saved before we are baptized is contradictory to what the Scriptures say..

    1 Peter 3:20 -21 Who once where disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the Ark, in which a few that is eight persons were brought safely through the water. 21 Corresponding to that, BAPTISM NOW SAVES YOU..not the removal of dirt from flesh but an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the ressurection through Jesus Christ...

    It tell us in Romans 6:4 Therefore we have been buried with him through baptism into death so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the Glory of the Father so we to might walk in newness of life. Romans 6:6 Knowing this that our old self was crucified with him in order our body of sin might be done away with so that we would no longer be slaves to sin.

    If we are saved at the moment of belief, does that mean we are a new person there and then and we are now alive in Christ Jesus, would it make any sense to bury the new saved person,? since we are told it is our old self we crucify, then we are raised that we might walk in newness of life..We don't go down into the water a saved person and come up a saved person..in Baptism we put off the old person and put on Christ to become a new person after baptism..
     
  5. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    Hey Joe... you might have missed it. Go back re-read post #210 in this thread. It might scripturally answer your questions about faith VS works.
     
  6. Scuba Pete

    Scuba Pete Le plongeur avec attitude...

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    For those who were talking about "Baptism of the Spirit" as opposed to water, this verse was read in church yesterday (the sermon was about baptism, go figure) and I thought it really appropriate.

    Acts 10:44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues and praising God.
    Then Peter said, 47 "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days. NIV

    In fact, I would challenge anyone to find one single conversion after Pentecost where baptism was not a central point to it.
     
  7. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Netdoc, I believe Peter himself clarifies Acts 10:47 later in Acts 11:16.

    10:47: Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

    11:16: Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.

    Ya know, this record indicates he did not baptize the Cornelius household of believers in water. Did your sermon include Peter's clarification he provided in 11:16? In the whole context it's as if Peter was preaching in the synagogue during 10:47 and was still influenced by it. He simply reverted to his previous doctrine and added water. Because in verses like Acts 2:38 Peter is on the move "baptizing them in the name of Jesus Christ", in Acts 2:38 he did not have time to go to his office and prepare a sermon like in 10:47 but rather spoke by revelation and inspiration.
     
  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I keep his commandments because He told me to. If you believe I am wrong in doing so, that is your preorogative. And I don't keep them to be saved. I cannot save myself. I know that.

    Jesus said, "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

    He also said, "If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love." (John 15:10)

    And His Apostes continued to teach this same principle.

    Paul said, "For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law; for not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified." (Romans 2:12-13)

    He also said, "And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:9)

    I hope you're not going to tell me that, since you were "saved," you have never sinned. I would find that quite hard to believe. It goes without saying that those who truly have faith in Christ will want to do everything in their power to following his commandments. I don't disagree with that in the slightest. But the fact remains, living as He would have us live requires effort on our part. We aren't just magically "good" all the time, just because we have faith in Jesus' power to save us. We continue to make mistakes, and when we do, it becomes necessary for us to repent. Now am I really saying something you disagree with?
     
  9. lionofjudah4iver

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    I was just talked to a Chirstian friend of mine that said that if you baptised your already saved. I would just like the thoughts of some other Chirstians on this.
    Thanks
    JAH Bless
     
  10. true blood

    true blood Active Member

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    Your friend is right. To be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ is to be sanctified, "to open their eyes, to turn from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive remission of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me" -Acts 26:18. "And if children, then heirs, heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ..."
     
  11. lionofjudah4iver

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    The way that she put it is that if one man does this and that and another man does the same in his life the man that was baptized has a better chance of going to heaven. Or if one person is even more rightous than another if he is not baptized then he dosnt have a good a chance.
    JAH Bless
     
  12. dan

    dan Well-Known Member

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    There is no evidence at all that infants or little children were ever baptized until the introduction of pedobaptism a century after CHrist's time. The only "evidences" are several scriptures saying so-and-so was "baptized with his family." The R. Catholic church points and says, "See, infants were baptized." Kind of a stretch.
     
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