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Featured Baptism with no purpose, any takers?

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by e.r.m., Aug 20, 2016.

  1. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Just want to take sort of a poll. This is not to discuss which purpose for water baptism in Jesus's name is correct, but the reasons I've heard include, but are not limited to:
    1. For forgiveness of sins.
    2. To give one's public confession that they belong to Christ.
    3. Testifying what God has already done inside (salvation).
    4. As one's parents dedicate their child to Christ.
    5. Following Jesus's example.

    My question is, has anyone gotten water baptized in Jesus's name for no reason than just cause God says so, with no purpose stated? "Here's Mike, he's being baptized because God says so, Here you go, under the water." Has anyone been taught to get baptized with the only reason being because God says so, and no other reason given?

    Thank you.
     
    #1 e.r.m., Aug 20, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 20, 2016
  2. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist My baby niece

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    I know I'm not answering your question. The first time I got baptized was because the Pentecostal church I went to said I needed to to be a part of their church (membership of the congregation).

    The second time I was baptized is because the sacraments of Christ (his spirit) called me to.

    However, I don't know what it means to be baptized because "god told me to." Can you explain that?
     
  3. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    It's sometimes called an act of obedience, but I've never seen or heard of this alleged act of obedience done just to obey without a corresponding reason, such as those mentioned above. Thank you for adding two new purposes to the fray. I have heard of baptism to join a church before, thank you.
     
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  4. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I'd have to say that I was baptized (1) for the remission of my sins (past and future) and (2) to follow Jesus' example. But, as a Mormon, there is, for me, a third reason. I believe that when we are baptized (not as infants, but as children who have at least arrived at an age where they can understand the difference between right and wrong), we enter into a covenant relationship with Jesus Christ, the terms of which are that in exchange for our sincere repentance of past sins, our faith in Him, our willingness to take His name upon us, and our commitment to always remember Him and to do our best to keep His commandments, He promises us salvation. To me, that's not really the same as your reason #3. In a way, I suppose you could say that I was baptized "because God said I was supposed to," but I believe He said so for the reasons I already mentioned. I can pretty much say for sure that I did not get baptized as "a public confession that I belong to Christ." I suspect that this is the reason why most people actually do get baptized. I don't actually feel that this reason has any biblical support at all. I don't believe God cares whether we have an audience for our baptism or not, and to me, the public confession that I belong to Christ is not in getting publicly dumped in water, but in the life I live after this event has taken place.
     
  5. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
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    I was raised Catholic so I was baptized as a baby. I assume my parents had a purpose beyond the most obvious one (tradition) and that would be the higher morality and salvation found with Christianity.
     
  6. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Thank you both. How does the sound of getting baptized just because God said so, resonate to you?
     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Well, for me, "because God said to do so" would probably be sufficient for me to obey. On the other hand, if I were going to do anything of a religious nature "because God said so," I would have to be pretty sure that it was God doing the saying so and not just some person speaking on his own. That's really kind of a moot point for me, though, since I believe God did give us reasons to be baptized and didn't just say, "because I said so."
     
  8. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Thank you. Agreed.
     
  9. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    For me its only a ritual, there is no need for it, if you have in your heart discovered your true inner being then that is enough.
     
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  10. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    That's not the question. The question is that at your baptism, did the announce or teach you a reason other than just obedience. If you're only seeking your true inner being, and not God, then you may not have gotten baptized.
     
    #10 e.r.m., Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  11. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    God didn't say so. The Jehovah's Witnesses said so, and I believed them. I got baptized because I believed it was the only way to approach God legitimately so in a way, it was because God said so. The purpose was not stated, but I believed my baptism would make me acceptable to be with Christ. They make it about being with the congregation.

    Sometimes I get a feeling that my previous sins will trip me and then I think, [the right English expression is taboo], I am baptized, so it can't hurt me.
     
  12. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Thank you.
    Why did they say you should be baptized?
     
  13. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    They say it is because Jesus showed the way and he was baptized, and to agree that you will hence forth be identified as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit directed organization.

    Watchtower - 1985 Jun 1 p.30

    "The first question is:
    On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    The second is:
    Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization? Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism."
    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/baptism.php

    Accordingly, it is not for the forgiveness of sins, but for recognizing you are a sinner and in need of a spirit-directed organization.
     
  14. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Thank you. So, their purpose was stated it sounds like.
     
  15. savagewind

    savagewind Veteran Member
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    It was not stated clearly. I understood that I would be gaining a family at my baptism, (in association with God's spirit directed org.) but that is not what it really means.
    The JWs baptism means the person is giving himself or herself to the governing body to do its will. It is not easily understood at a person's baptism that it is being taught that if you leave them, it means you leave Jehovah. If I had known that, I would not have been baptized with them. I did not know the governing body to be dedicated to them! It took me twenty years to realize for sure that they are not "God's spirit directed".
     
  16. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Ok, that's fine. It seems it was communicated enough, albeit environmentally, that you had an understanding by the time you got baptized. I'm looking if someone had no clue by the time they were baptized, other than just because God said so.
     
    #16 e.r.m., Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  17. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    Well God tp me is our true inner Being, our Source of Consciousness, you call it God, I call it the Source.
     
  18. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    You are not God. I do not call your or anyone's "true inner being" God. God is outside of, independent of, and over and superior to all of us, outer being and inner being.
    Job 33:12 But I tell you, in this you are not right, for God is greater than any mortal.

    1 Corinthians 1:25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.
     
    #18 e.r.m., Aug 21, 2016
    Last edited: Aug 21, 2016
  19. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    Yes as a mortal we are not god, but our true Self which is One in God, is God, not our carnal self, yes as long as we are in our carnal mind, and see ourselves as God in that mind, then yes we are the fool. so what are you ?.
     
  20. e.r.m.

    e.r.m. Church of Christ

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    Btw, good to meet a man from down under. Hope all is well. If I understand what you're saying, even our true inner self that God created, and is fabulous the way He created us before we mess ourselves up, is still not God. Our true self is not one in God and is not God. God is distinct and separate from our inner being. He is the creator, we are the created. He is the benevolent benefactor. When we seek God, we are not seeking ourselves, but Him.
     
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