Ban Gas Stoves? More enviro-nonesense on the way. Now at State level because of Federal level outcry

[Secret Chief]

Well it is the New York Post. It is far from being a reliable source. I have several cast iron pans. More than I need. And an electric stove because gas lines do not exist in my neighborhood. It drove me nuts one year when my water heater died and I had been seeing all of these natural gas commercials only to find out that there was no gas in my area.

At any rate the OP seems to be unaware of the connection between an increased asthma rate in children and gas stoves. That is not a "left wing" finding it is a scientific one. The same was found to be the case in Australia. And if a person just hates standard electric ranges they should opt for induction next time that they buy a new stove.

Even if this was true it is not a ban on existing gas stoves. If a person has a gas stove they are free to use it. It is new ones that would be banned and this is how bans that should be done are often accomplished.

Same with diesel cars.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Oh my!!! A right wing think tank opposes an action taken to protect children. I am shocked!

Seriously, look at the sources that you use and their agendas. Now you may disagree with the findings about childhood asthma, but if you try to claim that it is because the government wants to meddle you would be wrong. Again.

Why is it that so called " liberals" like government overreach so much?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Why is it that so called " liberals" like government overreach so much?

How is this "overreach"? Is it okay to sell cigarettes to five year old kids too? That would seem to be liberal overreach by you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Same with diesel cars.

Except for Volkswagen of course. How do they manage to run so cleanly?

 

[Wildswanderer]

As long as you ventilate your stove you should be ok for the most part. Having windows open helps a lot. The dangerous times are winter when the house is closed and heat is moving air all through the house. This will help dilute the CM but it is still a hazard that should be respected.

With wood heat? Did you read what I wrote?
I'm well aware that a person should take precautions with any type of gas.... and it's not just the cook stove, many people heat the whole house with gas.
Inhaling wood smoke is also not good for you, but a person can take precautions and do fine.

 

[Wildswanderer]

How is this "overreach"? Is it okay to sell cigarettes to five year old kids too? That would seem to be liberal overreach by you.

Lol, really? It's really hard to take you seriously when you make absurd comparisons.

 

[Subduction Zone]

With wood heat? Did you read what I wrote?
I'm well aware that a person should take precautions with any type of gas.... and it's not just the cook stove, many people heat the whole house with gas.
Inhaling wood smoke is also not good for you, but a person can take precautions and do fine.

Gas furnaces have exhaust systems as part of them . At least they did the last time that I checked. The products of combustion are not released into the house.

 

[Secret Chief]

Except for Volkswagen of course. How do they manage to run so cleanly?

I can't imagine.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol, really? It's really hard to take you seriously when you make absurd comparisons.

How is it absurd? I tried to simplify it for you since you seem to have difficulty following the arguments. Now it appears that you know that you are wrong by this post of yours.

 

[Wildswanderer]

How is it absurd? I tried to simplify it for you since you seem to have difficulty following the arguments. Now it appears that you know that you are wrong by this post of yours.

Just go ahead and wander around in your self imposed ignorance....

 

[Subduction Zone]

I can't imagine.

Maybe is has something to do with the Fahrtergnügen that we keep hearing about.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Just go ahead and wander around in your self imposed ignorance....

There goes another irony meter.

The ignorance apparently is yours. You cannot even explain why you think there was anything wrong with the argument. Let's see if you can reason rationally and support your claims for once instead of using emotional arguments. It would be a nice change.

 

[jbg]

Living is a risk. Common sense is the cure.

Let's look at the real agenda.

"It’s another example of the federal government reaching in and trying to control people’s lives,” says Jason Hayes, director of environmental policy at the Mackinac Center for Public policy, a Michigan-based free market think tank. “It’s more related to an overarching goal to remove fossil fuels from use.”

It hit me today that what the enviros are trying to do is to make all energy available to people electric. That way people's lives can be centrally controlled by rationing electricity.

 

[Subduction Zone]

It hit me today that what the enviros are trying to do is to make all energy available to people electric. That way people's lives can be centrally controlled by rationing electricity.

Wow! Straight to conspiracy theory nonsense.

Do you think that breathing carbon monoxide is healthy? Please note, they are not trying to limit either gas water heaters or gas furnaces. Both of which vent their exhaust to the outside. They are only going after a source that does not vent and can cause carbon monoxide poisoning.

What You Need to Know About Venting a Hot Water Heater

"All water heaters that burn natural gas or liquid propane (LP) gas require a venting system. The process of burning of the gas is called combustion and it creates heat, exhaust gases (including highly poisonous carbon monoxide), and moisture. "

How do you vent all of the burnt gases from a range? An overhead vent will capture quite a bit. but some will still mix with the air in the room. For children especially this can be a problem.

 

[We Never Know]

Wow! Straight to conspiracy theory nonsense.

Do you think that breathing carbon monoxide is healthy? Please note, they are not trying to limit either gas water heaters or gas furnaces. Both of which vent their exhaust to the outside. They are only going after a source that does not vent and can cause carbon monoxide poisoning.

I have an ducted exhaust hood(with fan)over my stove that vents to the outside. So your point?

 

[Subduction Zone]

I have an dusted exhaust hood(with fan)over my stove that vents to the outside. So your point?

Good for you.

Does that help a woman living in an apartment without such venting?

And do you realize that this would affect new gas ranges only? If you already have such a unit no one is making you abandon it.

 

[We Never Know]

Good for you.

Does that help a woman living in an apartment without such venting?

And do you realize that this would affect new gas ranges only? If you already have such a unit no one is making you abandon it.

Maybe they should make a law that such stoves should be vented outside. That's more feasible than banning them.

I wonder why they haven't focused on ventless natural gas and propane heaters used by millions.

They are worse than cook stoves. These things have a constant pilot flame that burns 24/7 plus kicks on full 2-4 times an hour.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Maybe they should make a law that such stoves should be vented outside. That's more feasible than banning them.

I wonder why they haven't focused on ventless natural gas and propane heaters used by millions.

They are worse than cook stoves. These things have a constant pilot flame that burns 24/7 plus kicks on full 2-4 times an hour.

View attachment 70514

I have no experience with those. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen. But adding a hood and venting system would likely cost more than a new range. The problem fixes itself if they ban new stoves. It is not immediate, but then your solution has the major problem that a lot of the burnt gases will escape to the room even if vented.

 

[We Never Know]

I have no experience with those. That seems like a disaster waiting to happen. But adding a hood and venting system would likely cost more than a new range. The problem fixes itself if they ban new stoves. It is not immediate, but then your solution has the major problem that a lot of the burnt gases will escape to the room even if vented.

"your solution has the major problem that a lot of the burnt gases will escape to the room even if vented"

Mine don't. Hardly even any food odors escape into the room when cooking.

As for ventless heaters.....

Lets say you use your gas cook stove 3 hours a day.(and that's more than most use it)

3x365=1,095 hours

A ventless heater runs on average 20 minutes every hour for 24 hours.(that's only kicking on twice for 10 minutes each hour). It will be more than that depending on temp, insulation, etc.

That's 8 hours a day for lets say 5 months during the cold months.

8x153=1224 and that's not counting the pilot light that burns 24/7 during those five months.

So which is worse?

 

[Subduction Zone]

"your solution has the major problem that a lot of the burnt gases will escape to the room even if vented"

Mine don't. Hardly even any food orders escape into the room when cooking.

As for ventless heaters.....

Lets say you use your gas cook stove 3 hours a day.(and that's more than most use it)

3x365=1,095 hours

A ventless heater runs on average 20 minutes every hour for 24 hours.(that's only kicking on twice for 10 minutes each hour). It will be more than that depending on temp, insulation, etc.

That's 8 hours a day for lets say 5 months during the cold months.

8x153=1224 and that's not counting the pilot light that burns 24/7 during those five months.

So which is worse?

How would you know? Do you have accurate carbon monoxide meters that display how much CO is in the air? If you do not then you have no way of telling how much gets vented out.

And as to those gas heaters, they do tend to be needed to be used in well ventilated rooms. The heaters themselves have to be well maintained:

Are Vent Free Natural Gas Heaters Safe?

There are a lot of potential problems with those and I do agree that if one bans new gas stoves, those would need to be banned as well.

The problems with gas ranges may be due to our homes being better sealed and insulated. That lowers power usage but has its own problems.