Bad news from Iraq

[.lava]

i remember on some other forum some guy said "they are running out of suicide bombers so they use retired people"

 

[Dr. Nosophoros]

Wow- what a shock, we must do something about this, like support the war just a little more because the enemy is evil.
My uncle was in Vietnam and the first story I remember him telling me was about was his first "kill" there. He was driving a deuce and a half (2 1/2 ton truck) delivering ammunition and supplies to the artillery unit he was attached to, floorboard covered with sandbags to hopefully avoid getting killed or injured by mines that might be on the road. The Sargent riding shotgun briefed him before the trip "Do not stop" for it is when one stops that ambushes happen. So he was going down this road and an old man riding a bicycle stopped in the middle of the road for apparently no reason, his Sargent told him to floor it, he did and ran that old man over, got to the destination safely.

 

[.lava]

Wow- what a shock, we must do something about this, like support the war just a little more because the enemy is evil.
My uncle was in Vietnam and the first story I remember him telling me was about was his first "kill" there. He was driving a deuce and a half (2 1/2 ton truck) delivering ammunition and supplies to the artillery unit he was attached to, floorboard covered with sandbags to hopefully avoid getting killed or injured by mines that might be on the road. The Sargent riding shotgun briefed him before the trip "Do not stop" for it is when one stops that ambushes happen. So he was going down this road and an old man riding a bicycle stopped in the middle of the road for apparently no reason, his Sargent told him to floor it, he did and ran that old man over, got to the destination safely.

isn't it a war crime?

 

[kai]

Well really if we were NOT there they really couldn't have any excuse to blame us for their atrocities, really ever since we've been there the situation in the middle east has gotten worse almost on a monthly basis it seems, Saddam Hussein was the only one who was dirty enough to keep them at bay. As americanized as Saddam was I doubt he did much dealing with Al-Quida except maybe make a quick buck with arms. "Oh but the government will collapse and chaos will ensue like at the end of Vietnam, if we pull out now!", well that's going to happen regardless, unless you're going to go around and force everyone to convert to something else or die, so really the question is; How long do you want to stay in Iraq and let our soldiers die before the inevitable happens? I mean really, chaos is going to happen and that puppet government we have installed is going to be destroyed by the locals as soon as we're gone, not too mention they haven't met many of the benchmarks we told them to meet to continue receiving our aid. Oh and I like how they're crying "wolf" again with Iran, though do you know only the nations with permanent seats at the UN are the only ones permitted to have nuclear arms?

they are not blaming us for their atrocities they are just doing what they do , "we" have a choice come home and ignore it , and hope it doesnt come to us , but it already has

 

[kai]

Wow- what a shock, we must do something about this, like support the war just a little more because the enemy is evil.
My uncle was in Vietnam and the first story I remember him telling me was about was his first "kill" there. He was driving a deuce and a half (2 1/2 ton truck) delivering ammunition and supplies to the artillery unit he was attached to, floorboard covered with sandbags to hopefully avoid getting killed or injured by mines that might be on the road. The Sargent riding shotgun briefed him before the trip "Do not stop" for it is when one stops that ambushes happen. So he was going down this road and an old man riding a bicycle stopped in the middle of the road for apparently no reason, his Sargent told him to floor it, he did and ran that old man over, got to the destination safely.

different war different enemy no vc ever killed americans on american soil ,and whats your point concerning this story
BBC NEWS | World | Middle East | Iraq market bombs toll nears 100

 

[kai]

isn't it a war crime?

its murder

 

[.lava]

Well really if we were NOT there they really couldn't have any excuse to blame us for their atrocities, really ever since we've been there the situation in the middle east has gotten worse almost on a monthly basis it seems, Saddam Hussein was the only one who was dirty enough to keep them at bay. As americanized as Saddam was I doubt he did much dealing with Al-Quida except maybe make a quick buck with arms. "Oh but the government will collapse and chaos will ensue like at the end of Vietnam, if we pull out now!", well that's going to happen regardless, unless you're going to go around and force everyone to convert to something else or die, so really the question is; How long do you want to stay in Iraq and let our soldiers die before the inevitable happens? I mean really, chaos is going to happen and that puppet government we have installed is going to be destroyed by the locals as soon as we're gone, not too mention they haven't met many of the benchmarks we told them to meet to continue receiving our aid. Oh and I like how they're crying "wolf" again with Iran, though do you know only the nations with permanent seats at the UN are the only ones permitted to have nuclear arms?

US government doesnot want to leave Iraq. they want to take over entire region.

 

[kai]

US government doesnot want to leave Iraq. they want to take over entire region.

who on earth would want to take over that entire region , they must be mad, what leads you to that ridiculous conclusion.

 

[UnityNow101]

Right on Lamplighter....I think that is why right-wing cronies such as John McCain and George Bush are implying that we may be needed there for many years to come. John McCain has said that we may be there as many as 100 years! But the right is forgetting one thing about this whole mess in Iraq. If we wouldn't have gone into Iraq in the first place, we wouldn't be having this argument about how long we should or shouldn't be involved. It was a doomed war from the start. And two great minds running for President did get it right, so there is no saying that everyone voted for war.

 

[kai]

Right on Lamplighter....I think that is why right-wing cronies such as John McCain and George Bush are implying that we may be needed there for many years to come. John McCain has said that we may be there as many as 100 years! But the right is forgetting one thing about this whole mess in Iraq. If we wouldn't have gone into Iraq in the first place, we wouldn't be having this argument about how long we should or shouldn't be involved. It was a doomed war from the start. And two great minds running for President did get it right, so there is no saying that everyone voted for war.

your are right it was doomed from the start democratic countries can never win there they not ruthless enough, secondly no european countries seem to have any idea about the extemism going on around them, so dont want to get involved i am sure we will leave and let the butchers take over and sit at home complaining about terrorists

 

[Francine]

who on earth would want to take over that entire region , they must be mad, what leads you to that ridiculous conclusion.

The construction of an embassy larger than Vatican City. The construction of Superbases throughout Iraq.

 

[kai]

The construction of an embassy larger than Vatican City. The construction of Superbases throughout Iraq.

do you have a source i can check out the US does have bases all over perhaps the jihadis are right and it is world domination after all.
List of United States military bases - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Scuba Pete]

While these figures are fine for the average Al Queda member, it doesn't give us an insight into the psyche of the Suicide bomber.

I have no time for murder but this is mistaken.
From Scientific American Mind:-
The belief that suicide bombers are poor, uneducated, disaffected or disturbed is contradicted by science. Marc Sageman, a forensic psychiatrist at the Foreign Policy Research Institute, found in a study of 400 Al Qaeda members that three quarters of

The use of the mentally challenged is the next step of the emotional and mental abuse that is used by the upper echelon to control the masses. These people are ruthless and deranged to the point where human life and dignity mean nothing.

 

[Francine]

do you have a source i can check out the US does have bases all over perhaps the jihadis are right and it is world domination after all.

“Enduring” U.S. Bases in Iraq: Monopolizing the Middle East Prize

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Post-invasion, the U.S. military established 110 bases in Iraq. By spring 2006 the Pentagon had “reduced the size of its footprint” by consolidating them into approximately 75 bases across the country. As authority is turned over to the central government in Baghdad or seized by competing Shi’a, Sunni, and Kurdish mini-states, the Pentagon is working feverishly to further consolidate the U.S. military presence to 14 “enduring bases” in Northern Iraq (Kurdistan), Baghdad, Anbar province (home to Sunni Fallujah, Ramadi, and Tikrit), and Shi’a-dominated southern approaches to Baghdad.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Organized around airfields “to facilitate resupply operations and troop mobility,” the major bases in Baghdad include: Camp Victory at the airport, which hosts as many as 14,000 U.S. troops; Anaconda Air Base, just north of Baghdad, which spreads across 15 square miles and is being built for 20,000 U.S. troops; Camp Falcon / Al Sarq, which will accommodate 5,000 U.S. soldiers; and the so-called U.S. “embassy complex” in the Green Zone. There, $1 billion is being spent on a 100-acre installation, comparable to the size of Vatican City, with a Marine barracks, 300 homes, 21 other buildings, and its own electrical, water, and sewage systems.[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“Post Freedom,” Camp Marez, and the Mosul Airfield serve the 101st Airborne Division and defend U.S. allies and interests in oil-rich Kurdistan. “Camp Renegade” is an air base “strategically located near the Kirkuk oil fields and the Kirkuk refinery and petrochemical plant.” Tajji, just north of Fallujah, is built on the site of a former Republican Guard “military city” and is replete with the comforts of Burger King, Pizza Hut, and Subway restaurants to make U.S. warriors feel right at home. Camps Speicher and Fallujah are located near Saddam Hussein’s home town of Tikrit and the center of Sunni resistance in Fallujah. Little is known about the other planned “enduring bases.”[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][/FONT]

 

[kai]

“Enduring” U.S. Bases in Iraq: Monopolizing the Middle East Prize

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Post-invasion, the U.S. military established 110 bases in Iraq. By spring 2006 the Pentagon had “reduced the size of its footprint” by consolidating them into approximately 75 bases across the country. As authority is turned over to the central government in Baghdad or seized by competing Shi’a, Sunni, and Kurdish mini-states, the Pentagon is working feverishly to further consolidate the U.S. military presence to 14 “enduring bases” in Northern Iraq (Kurdistan), Baghdad, Anbar province (home to Sunni Fallujah, Ramadi, and Tikrit), and Shi’a-dominated southern approaches to Baghdad.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Organized around airfields “to facilitate resupply operations and troop mobility,” the major bases in Baghdad include: Camp Victory at the airport, which hosts as many as 14,000 U.S. troops; Anaconda Air Base, just north of Baghdad, which spreads across 15 square miles and is being built for 20,000 U.S. troops; Camp Falcon / Al Sarq, which will accommodate 5,000 U.S. soldiers; and the so-called U.S. “embassy complex” in the Green Zone. There, $1 billion is being spent on a 100-acre installation, comparable to the size of Vatican City, with a Marine barracks, 300 homes, 21 other buildings, and its own electrical, water, and sewage systems.[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]“Post Freedom,” Camp Marez, and the Mosul Airfield serve the 101st Airborne Division and defend U.S. allies and interests in oil-rich Kurdistan. “Camp Renegade” is an air base “strategically located near the Kirkuk oil fields and the Kirkuk refinery and petrochemical plant.” Tajji, just north of Fallujah, is built on the site of a former Republican Guard “military city” and is replete with the comforts of Burger King, Pizza Hut, and Subway restaurants to make U.S. warriors feel right at home. Camps Speicher and Fallujah are located near Saddam Hussein’s home town of Tikrit and the center of Sunni resistance in Fallujah. Little is known about the other planned “enduring bases.”[/FONT]

have you got something a little more unbiased than
Dr. Joseph Gerson is director of programs for the New England office of the American Friends Service Committee. His books include The Sun Never Sets … Confronting the Network of Foreign U.S. Military Bases (1991) and Empire and the Bomb: How the United States Uses Nuclear Weapons to Dominate the World (to be released May 2007).

I am well aware when america goes to war it takes america with it but saying US government doesnot want to leave Iraq. they want to take over entire region. needs some sort of policy and i dont think even bush is that crazy , and if its all about oil then spend some money on alternatives and let it return to desert its cheaper

 

[doppelganger]

I am well aware when america goes to war it takes america with it but saying US government doesnot want to leave Iraq. they want to take over entire region. needs some sort of policy and i dont think even bush is that crazy , and if its all about oil then spend some money on alternatives and let it return to desert its cheaper

Guess again . . . it's about extending "American hegemony" over the planet. You don't have to go to lefties to hear it, either. The architects of the Iraq invasion and occupation say it themselves:

The United States is the
world’s only superpower, combining
preeminent military power, global
technological leadership, and the world’s
largest economy. Moreover, America stands
at the head of a system of alliances which
includes the world’s other leading
democratic powers. At present the United
States faces no global rival. America’s
grand strategy should aim to preserve and
extend this advantageous position as far into
the future as possible. There are, however,
potentially powerful states dissatisfied with
the current situation and eager to change it,
if they can, in directions that endanger the
relatively peaceful, prosperous and free
condition the world enjoys today. Up to
now, they have been deterred from doing so
by the capability and global presence of
American military power. But, as that
power declines, relatively and absolutely,
the happy conditions that follow from it will
be inevitably undermined.
Preserving the desirable strategic
situation in which the United States now
finds itself requires a globally preeminent
military capability both today and in the
future.

Read through the linked document. It's all about the establishment of permanent military bases in key strategic areas (including the Persian Gulf) from which the U.S. can use its military superiority to maintain its global dominance in other spheres.

The official supporters of the Project for a New American Century include:

* Bill Kristol, Co-founder and Chairman
* Robert Kagan,Co-founder
* Elliott Abrams
* Gary Bauer
* Bill Bennett
* Dick Cheney
* Eliot A. Cohen
* Steve Forbes
* Frank Gaffney
* Zalmay Khalilzad
* I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
* Norman Podhoretz
* Dan Quayle
* Donald Rumsfeld
* Paul Wolfowitz
* Richard L. Armitage
* John R. Bolton
* Thomas Donnelly
* Jeane Kirkpatrick
* Charles Krauthammer
* Michael O'Hanlon
* Richard Perle

It's a veritable "Who's who?" of the Bush Administration's Iraq adventures.

 

[lamplighter]

they are not blaming us for their atrocities they are just doing what they do , "we" have a choice come home and ignore it , and hope it doesnt come to us , but it already has

Oh, I'm not against eliminating terrorism, I'm against sitting in Iraq and wasting our soldiers while we try to secure the Iraqi oil fields, err I mean "bring democracy to the region" , right anyways, we are not accomplishing anything sitting in Iraq going door to door everyday like girl scouts. To win the war on terrorism we have to actually go to them and kill them when we find them before they kill more civilians (I'd like to point out that in one instance when we had a chance to eliminate a number leaders in Al-Qaida during a funeral [ironically] we never took the shot, though we do have plenty of IR pictures for them to look at that we took during the funeral), but sadly this Iraq thing is going as badly Vietnam. If we could rewind and get all those billions (if not trillions by now) of dollars we've wasted in vain on Iraq, and actually spent all that money genuinely trying to eliminate terrorism, we'd of probably accomplished the goal in 2- 4 years and probably far cheaper too (granted that the countries in the UN decided to share their information on the various terrorist cells with one another).

 

[kai]

Guess again . . . it's about extending "American hegemony" over the planet. You don't have to go to lefties to hear it, either. The architects of the Iraq invasion and occupation say it themselves:
Read through the linked document. It's all about the establishment of permanent military bases in key strategic areas (including the Persian Gulf) from which the U.S. can use its military superiority to maintain its global dominance in other spheres.

The official supporters of the Project for a New American Century include:

* Bill Kristol, Co-founder and Chairman
* Robert Kagan,Co-founder
* Elliott Abrams
* Gary Bauer
* Bill Bennett
* Dick Cheney
* Eliot A. Cohen
* Steve Forbes
* Frank Gaffney
* Zalmay Khalilzad
* I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby
* Norman Podhoretz
* Dan Quayle
* Donald Rumsfeld
* Paul Wolfowitz
* Richard L. Armitage
* John R. Bolton
* Thomas Donnelly
* Jeane Kirkpatrick
* Charles Krauthammer
* Michael O'Hanlon
* Richard Perle

It's a veritable "Who's who?" of the Bush Administration's Iraq adventures.

well bush isnt going to be around for much longer and you of course have your vote and are these guys still in any kind of power and i am glad you have exposed this quest for world domination