Atheists - What is the meaning of life?

[JerryL]

Only because God never HAD a beginning, and thus had no cause or creator, and thus because He is timeless and omnipotent and we are not, He can assign purpose to Himself and all things He creates. Again, God is the exception that proves the rule.

Your assertion: Things without beginnings can give themselves purpose, but things with beginning must be given purpose by their creator.

Please support this assertion.

I think I just explained this, due to the fact that God is a totally different being than ourselves.

Dolphins can give themselves purpose and people cannot. Why? Because Dolphins are totally different than people.

You have not established tha tyour criteria for give purpose is anything other than entirely arbitrary... and hypocritial as it doesn't hold one being to the same standard as another.

Quite often, we do. But if everyone simply did whatveer they wanted without question, the world would be a complete mess, so that philosophy and outlook is short-sighted and simplistic at best.

It's not a philosophy, it's a statement of fact. We all do exactly what we want to do (except where physically prevented).

Your assertion (or at least Frogo's): Theists invented God.

Is that the topic? Does that relate to what you said a minute agoe (that athiests are in deinal)? This seems a red-herring.

And I simply meant that people should not randomly invent meaning for themselves, it should be grounded in some sort of objectivity.

Suppport the validity of this claim.

I was referring to a reasonable or logical selection of one's purpose. Of course, you can do whatever the heck you want. However, I was referring to why it was reasonable for God to do so and not finite humans.

Another assertion. Please provide that your standard is actually objective and not arbitrary.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

But it is not an objective matter. It is subjective. People choose their purpose--even when they are choosing what they think God's purpose for them is. Meaning is based on the individual applying it; One may find painting meaningful, but another may find it pointless.

But the point is, from the Christian perspective at all, we DON'T have to guess at what God's purposes for us are. He has plainly told us many times and we have only to act upon what He has said. It is about as objective as it gets.

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

If you can avoid getting caught, why not do things that make you happy but are immoral?

It doesn't take the law for people to refrain from murdering one another. Do you think you would go around murdering the people you didn't like if it had no social or lawful repercussions?

 

[Jaymes]

But the point is, from the Christian perspective at all, we DON'T have to guess at what God's purposes for us are. He has plainly told us many times and we have only to act upon what He has said.

He's never told me. He's never even talked to me.

 

[gnostic]

Is my sn "FerventToBeWithGodInTheAfterlife", or simply "FerventGodSeeker"? I don't find life on this Earth odious at all, I find it rather enjoyable, overall. I believe God has a purpose for me on this Earth right now, and that when He wants me to go to heaven, I will. However, this is severely off topic.

Then why say a person who don't believe in your god to be meaningless? Why do you ask "why go on living?" to an atheist?

Not everyone's purpose has to do with God. For you to equate with purpose or meaning to God and that those who don't follow as purposeless so don't need to live, sounds nothing more than a sale pitch of used car salesman, to get people converted. That sound just as bad as the insurance pitches, which I often hear from preaching Christian fundmentalists when looking for people to convert.

 

[finalfrogo]

But the point is, from the Christian perspective at all, we DON'T have to guess at what God's purposes for us are. He has plainly told us many times and we have only to act upon what He has said. It is about as objective as it gets.

FGS

But you select what you believe. You choose to be a Christian. You therefore choose to believe in the purpose Christianity presents. That is free will. It is not fundamentally different from my own selection of purpose.

 

[finalfrogo]

But the point is, from the Christian perspective at all, we DON'T have to guess at what God's purposes for us are. He has plainly told us many times and we have only to act upon what He has said. It is about as objective as it gets.

FGS

And you don't think there is dispute over life's purpose within Christianity?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Your assertion: Things without beginnings can give themselves purpose, but things with beginning must be given purpose by their creator.

Please support this assertion.

I though that's what I had been doing, lol. When something is intentionally created, one can reasonably say that it is for a purpose, yes? That purpose is given by the creator when he does the creating. If the created thing suddenly went out on a limb and did things that it was not designed to do, you can hopefully see how this would create problems (think Frankenstein or something similar). Thus, our purpose as created beings has been given to us by our Creator. Since the Creator had no beginning and thuse no creator of Himself, but rather He gives creation and purpose to all things, He reasonably gives purpose to Himself.

Dolphins can give themselves purpose and people cannot. Why? Because Dolphins are totally different than people.

A dolphin is a lower lifeform than a human; God is a higher lifeform....think of a known lifeform higher than a human, and you may be on to something...maybe.

You have not established tha tyour criteria for give purpose is anything other than entirely arbitrary... and hypocritial as it doesn't hold one being to the same standard as another.

I think I've explained myself pretty well if you go back and look.

Suppport the validity of this claim.

Again, I thought I had been. An objective purpose is superior to a subjective one created in one's own mind, because it is objective. It has validity outside of your own self. This seems so self-evident I'm not even sure what more needs to be explained.

Another assertion. Please provide that your standard is actually objective and not arbitrary.

See above explanations, as well as the ones I've been providing throughout the thread.

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

I was referring to a reasonable or logical selection of one's purpose. Of course, you can do whatever the heck you want. However, I was referring to why it was reasonable for God to do so and not finite humans.

On what do you base this reason and logic? On what your religion tells you? My reason and logic is this: I enjoy doing things, so I do them. How is this invalid? On what do you base validity in the logic and reason behind purpose?

Well duh. Did you think you were going to figure out an infinite God with a finite brain? I just give myself headaches when I do that, lol/
Good question.
Now you're just causing trouble

FGS

This illustrates my point that any selected purpose is arbitrary. Purpose is an arbitrary subject. If God selects His purpose arbitrarily, why can't humanity select its purpose arbitrarily?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

It doesn't take the law for people to refrain from murdering one another. Do you think you would go around murdering the people you didn't like if it had no social or lawful repercussions?

If I wanted to, if I thought it would make me feel better, (and if there was no God), then yes, I just might. What do you think goes through the minds of murderers in the act?

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

He gives creation and purpose to all things, He reasonably gives purpose to Himself.

On what basis is He selecting a purpose for humanity and Himself? Is it not an arbitrary decision for Him?

And on what do you base the assumption that everything that is created requires a purpose?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

On what do you base this reason and logic?

I just explained this above, scroll up to the last few posts of mine.

On what your religion tells you? My reason and logic is this: I enjoy doing things, so I do them. How is this invalid?

I enjoy killing people, so I am going to. I hope you see exactly how it's invalid.

This illustrates my point that any selected purpose is arbitrary. Purpose is an arbitrary subject. If God selects His purpose arbitrarily, why can't humanity select its purpose arbitrarily?

Ugh...again, I just explained this earlier.

FGS

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

And on what do you base the assumption that everything that is created requires a purpose?

Name something that is intentionally created that has no purpose. (and please don't say "humans" or "the universe", because that's the bone of contention here)

FGS

 

[Jaymes]

Name something that is intentionally created that has no purpose.

Hybrid flowers, dogs ("labradoodle"), etc.

 

[finalfrogo]

If I wanted to, if I thought it would make me feel better

Oh, that's good. So if there was no God and no law, you would kill somebody you don't like. Do you need God and the law to be a good person?

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Hybrid flowers

Off the top of my head, they're often used for scientific research.

dogs ("labradoodle"), etc

If you're referring to dogs in general, then I suggest you do some research on the history of dog bredding and just how practical many dogs have been designed to be. If you're talking about a specific breed (the labradoodle), at the very, very least, they bring happiness to their owner...I heard dogs give their owners longer lives.

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

Name something that is intentionally created that has no purpose. (and please don't say "humans" or "the universe", because that's the bone of contention here)

FGS

Name the purpose of a stone.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Oh, that's good. So if there was no God and no law, you would kill somebody you don't like.

If there was no God, no law, and it would make me feel good (or I thought it would), then I just might, yes.

Do you need God and the law to be a good person?

What in the world is "good"?

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

I enjoy killing people, so I am going to. I hope you see exactly how it's invalid.

Then go ahead. If it makes you feel good, you must be meant for it. It doesn't make me feel good, however--something about the blood and extinguishment of another's life just doesn't make me feel mentally sound--so I don't think I'll participate. In fact, I'm going to stop you, because I don't enjoy watching people kill other people.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Name the purpose of a stone.

When was the stone created, and by whom? (I'm asking from your atheistic worldview, of course, so "God" kinda defeats the starting premise of your arguments here).

FGS