Atheists - What is the meaning of life?

[finalfrogo]

See my explanation to doppleganger as to why God's attributes allow Him to create purpose as opposed to us.

But really, we're getting off the subject...What is the atheistic purpose of life? If that question throws you off, what gets you up in the morning, what motivates you, what is your driving impetus that guides your life?

FGS

Not everyone needs to see some sort of "purpose for all humanity" to get up and do things. I have my reasons to live. I don't need a god to tell me why I should get up. I like getting up, so I do.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

You are doing more than that, you are asserting your own presuppositions on someone else's position. It creates an equivocation issue.

Well of course I'm comparing the two, and arguing which I see as more reasonable. Of course I assume that there is a God in my posts, just as you and other atheists assume there is not.

God created God?

Ok, God created all OTHER things...remember the whole "exception that proves the rule" thing?

A difference you have failed to show being relevent to creating purpose.

Eternality does not necesarily allow one to reasonably create purpose. I said that because God created the material world, He reasonably creates meaning for it.

OK. So how is human poetry not random, but human purpose is. You are using a double standard with no validation of "why".

Maybe I'm being unclear. Both poetry and purpose are random, in my view, if not seen under the lens of a divine cause. Both poetry and purpose, in my view, have reasonable cause and benefit, when seen under the lens of divine cause. Does that make more sense?

Thanks for everybody's responses; I'm glad I'm getting feedback.

FGS

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Not everyone needs to see some sort of "purpose for all humanity" to get up and do things. I have my reasons to live.

Well FINALLY we're getting somewhere! What are they?

I like getting up, so I do

So we should basically do things that make us personally happy?

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

Well FINALLY we're getting somewhere! What are they?

So we should basically do things that make us personally happy?

What else are we going to do, if humanity doesn't have a set purpose? It may sound utterly meaningless and insignificant to people, but that doesn't mean they should fabricate some divine purpose to believe in because they can't face the truth. They shouldn't invent God because they feel their lives are meaningless.

 

[finalfrogo]

And just because it's arbitrary to select a personal purpose doesn't mean that there is a set purpose.

All people choose their purpose, whether they believe it is backed by God or not.

 

[JerryL]

Me: You've not shown that any of these traits are relevent to assigning self-purpose.
You: Since God is the Creator of all things, He assigns a purpose to all things.
Me: God created God?
You: Ok, God created all OTHER things...remember the whole "exception that proves the rule" thing?

So then, since God is not the creator of God, and since God has God-given purposes (both your worldview) then even your worldview does not see being the creator of something as a neccessairy prerequsite to giving it purpose.

So again I ask: Why can't a person's purpose be self-assigned?

Eternality does not necesarily allow one to reasonably create purpose. I said that because God created the material world, He reasonably creates meaning for it.

If "eternal" is not an important element to creating purpose, you should not have brought it up. You are back to saying that meaning for something is given by its creator, but you've already admitted that God did not create God, and you assert that God has meaning.

Maybe I'm being unclear. Both poetry and purpose are random, in my view, if not seen under the lens of a divine cause. Both poetry and purpose, in my view, have reasonable cause and benefit, when seen under the lens of divine cause. Does that make more sense?

Far less than before it seems.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

What else are we going to do, if humanity doesn't have a set purpose?

Good point. If you humanity has no purpose, then heck, why not do whatever the heck we want to do? But then I hope you see how that philosophy quite frequently flies in the face of morality, as many things that we'd like to do are immoral.

It may sound utterly meaningless and insignificant to people, but that doesn't mean they should fabricate some divine purpose to believe in because they can't face the truth. They shouldn't invent God because they feel their lives are meaningless.

And they shouldn't invent meaning just because they can't or don't want to accept the divine one.

FGS

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

So then, since God is not the creator of God, and since God has God-given purposes (both your worldview) then even your worldview does not see being the creator of something as a neccessairy prerequsite to giving it purpose.

Only because God never HAD a beginning, and thus had no cause or creator, and thus because He is timeless and omnipotent and we are not, He can assign purpose to Himself and all things He creates. Again, God is the exception that proves the rule.

If "eternal" is not an important element to creating purpose, you should not have brought it up. You are back to saying that meaning for something is given by its creator, but you've already admitted that God did not create God, and you assert that God has meaning.

I think I just explained this, due to the fact that God is a totally different being than ourselves.

FGS

 

[JerryL]

Again you seem to be telling, not asking:

Good point. If you humanity has no purpose, then heck, why not do whatever the heck we want to do? But then I hope you see how that philosophy quite frequently flies in the face of morality, as many things that we'd like to do are immoral.

Your assertion "morality" therefore "divinity".

And we do, in fact, do whatever we want to.

And they shouldn't invent meaning just because they can't or don't want to accept the divine one.

You assertion: Athiests are in denial.

 

[gnostic]

This question is for atheists, and I'm wondering what you guys feel the meaning or purpose of life is, and how you reach that conclusion?

I don't think atheists have any belief in the "purpose" or "meaning" of life that would suggest a single universal meaning.

The only "meaning in life" is what each individual give it. Each one is different and unique to their circumstances. There maybe many meanings - career, education, family, helping other people. Some would have certain goals that they want to achieve.

I suppose your purpose is that to find or worship god, ferventgodseeker.

To my mind, Christianity and Islam seemed to be obssessed with death and afterlife as much as the ancient Egyptians, instead of living a full life. A life without good deeds is meaningless if you only spend it on your knees praying and singing. How does that have meaning?

I see no reason to believe there is one.

So there is no purpose to life? Why go on living?

I would have found that sort of question offensive, if it was directed at me.

Tell me, ferventgodseeker. If you are so fervent to being with god in the afterlife, then why do you go on living, here? Why not take your own life and be with him, if you find this life on earth so odious?

Just because a person don't have their purpose in worshipping God, doesn't mean that it is purposeless or meaningless to that non-believing individual.

God is extremely purposeful, not only does He have His own purposes for Himself but we are given purpose in Him....but that's kinda getting off the topic of the thread, which is to get the atheistic view on the issue.

Quite frankly, I don't find God or heaven appealing at all. It is about appealing as being in hell or following the so-called nonexistent Satan. The idea that some Christians have that people who don't worship him would be eternally condemned to burn in the fire and brimstone of hell, displayed that he is unjust god. I have no interested in believing or worshipping a god that would subject anyone in eternal torments, simply because he lack faith to believe in his existence. I had several people in the past, telling me that I would burn in hell. If anything that is the sort of coercion and intimidation that I dislike when Christians tried to convert people. And if their God is really like that, then he is not just or merciful at all, since there is a price; with that sort of God seemed more like a coercive tyrant.

If God is so interested in free-will then he shouldn't be punishing people who don't worship him. Otherwise this so-called free-will that Christians and Muslims boasted about is "meaningless".

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Again you seem to be telling, not asking:

Your assertion "morality" therefore "divinity".

And we do, in fact, do whatever we want to.

Quite often, we do. But if everyone simply did whatveer they wanted without question, the world would be a complete mess, so that philosophy and outlook is short-sighted and simplistic at best.

You assertion: Athiests are in denial

Your assertion (or at least Frogo's): Theists invented God.

FGS

 

[Jaymes]

Whoops, I missed this the first run-through.

So there is no purpose to life? Why go on living?

I see no reason to off myself just because I don't have a purpose. What's the purpose in growing a garden or playing cards? It's there simply for enjoyment. I try to look at this life the same way.

 

[finalfrogo]

Good point. If you humanity has no purpose, then heck, why not do whatever the heck we want to do? But then I hope you see how that philosophy quite frequently flies in the face of morality, as many things that we'd like to do are immoral.

They don't do whatever the heck they want to do because most people don't want to end up (a) dead or (b) in prison. They don't want to enter stressful situations, and they dont' want to be disliked by others.

And they shouldn't invent meaning just because they can't or don't want to accept the divine one.

FGS

The divine one in itself is a CHOICE. You choose which "divine purpose" you wish to believe in. Everyone selects his own meaning, even if it originates in religion.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

I suppose your purpose is that to find or worship god, ferventgodseeker. Tell me, ferventgodseeker. If you are so fervent to being with god in the afterlife, then why do you go on living, here? Why not take your own life and be with him, if you find this life on earth so odious?

Is my sn "FerventToBeWithGodInTheAfterlife", or simply "FerventGodSeeker"? I don't find life on this Earth odious at all, I find it rather enjoyable, overall. I believe God has a purpose for me on this Earth right now, and that when He wants me to go to heaven, I will. However, this is severely off topic.

Quite frankly, I don't find God or heaven appealing at all.

And the wonderful thing about God is, He will never force you to go there. If you never want to go to heaven, you never will.

It is about appealing as being in hell or following the so-called nonexistent Satan. The idea that some Christians have that people who don't worship him would be eternally condemned to burn in the fire and brimstone of hell, displayed that he is unjust god. I have no interested in believing or worshipping a god that would subject anyone in eternal torments, simply because he lack faith to believe in his existence. I had several people in the past, telling me that I would burn in hell. If anything that is the sort of coercion and intimidation that I dislike when Christians tried to convert people. And if their God is really like that, then he is not just or merciful at all, since there is a price; with that sort of God seemed more like a coercive tyrant.

These are total non sequitors to my OP, but thanks for the opinions.

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

Your assertion (or at least Frogo's): Theists invented God.

You misunderstand. I meant that people should not base their belief in God on these reasons:

• they find life meaningless
• because they need divine support for their own selected meaning

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

They don't do whatever the heck they want to do because most people don't want to end up (a) dead or (b) in prison. They don't want to enter stressful situations, and they dont' want to be disliked by others.

If you can avoid getting caught, why not do things that make you happy but are immoral?

The divine one in itself is a CHOICE. You choose which "divine purpose" you wish to believe in. Everyone selects his own meaning, even if it originates in religion

This goes to a whole other issue of "Which God is the real God?", but I see your point; I was arguing from the Christian perspective.

FGS

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

You misunderstand. I meant that people should not base their belief in God on these reasons:

• they find life meaningless
• because they need divine support for their own selected meaning

And I simply meant that people should not randomly invent meaning for themselves, it should be grounded in some sort of objectivity.

FGS

 

[finalfrogo]

Only because God never HAD a beginning, and thus had no cause or creator, and thus because He is timeless and omnipotent and we are not, He can assign purpose to Himself and all things He creates. Again, God is the exception that proves the rule.

Omnipotence is a requirement for the selection of an entity's own purpose? Funny, because I've always selected my own purpose, and I'm not omnipotent.

God's selection of a purpose seems... somewhat arbitrary. Why would He pick such or such a purpose? What meaning does it has to Him? And why is the answer to that question meaningful? Hmmm...

 

[finalfrogo]

And I simply meant that people should not randomly invent meaning for themselves, it should be grounded in some sort of objectivity.

FGS

But it is not an objective matter. It is subjective. People choose their purpose--even when they are choosing what they think God's purpose for them is. Meaning is based on the individual applying it; One may find painting meaningful, but another may find it pointless.

 

[FerventGodSeeker]

Omnipotence is a requirement for the selection of an entity's own purpose? Funny, because I've always selected my own purpose, and I'm not omnipotent.

I was referring to a reasonable or logical selection of one's purpose. Of course, you can do whatever the heck you want. However, I was referring to why it was reasonable for God to do so and not finite humans.

God's selection of a purpose seems... somewhat arbitrary.

Well duh. Did you think you were going to figure out an infinite God with a finite brain? I just give myself headaches when I do that, lol/

Why would He pick such or such a purpose?

Good question.

What meaning does it has to Him? And why is the answer to that question meaningful? Hmmm..

Now you're just causing trouble

FGS