Atheist Seeking Church

[bhaktajan]

Input "Pub" into your CPU.

 

[dust1n]

Sure, but not to debate, but only to explain.

Of course.

Civilization is basically formed by the men of a tribe. It depends on the ability of men to cooperate for their mutual benefit and this in turn depends on trust. The men of the tribe must feel that they will all benefit from this cooperation, which means that there can't be gross inequality of any kind.

This doesn't seem to be the case for many civilizations, like the Tuareg or Sardinian people.

Successful cultures either had benevolent rulers or shared power among men. One of the basic guarantees of equality is monogamy, because this guarantees that each man will get one woman.

What is a successful culture and if monogamy is of the basic guarantees of equality, than why did it fail to create equality for centuries?

The greatest inequality in access to women comes from promiscuity. With promiscuity, a few men are the winners and most men are losers (even if they won't admit it). In such an environment, there is no reason for men to cooperate. In fact, they will all stab each other in the back in pursuit of women.

So, the one who gets laid the most or at least has the most variety is winning some innate competition amongst all other males and is eliminating all reasoning for cooperative efforts with other men?

And this is exactly what you see in America today.

I actually rarely see conflict amongst men regarding women.

In this environment, every man grabs all that he can without consideration for others because cooperation is pointless. And this is the basis of the lack of morality among bankers and the lack of moral outrage by the public.

That seems like a rather indirect cause (not direct), if it is true. I just am failing to see how promiscuity amongst women has created greedy bankers. In fact, banking has been a practice long before feminism, and greedy people have always existed even in states of strict monogamy.







Just my two cents. Anyways, I am not aware of any religion that even comes close to any of this.

 

[fschmidt]

This doesn't seem to be the case for many civilizations, like the Tuareg or Sardinian people.

The Tuareg don't seem highly civilized and Sardinia is just an Island, so I am not sure what you mean. The anthropologist Unwin showed in the book "Sex and Culture" that the level of development of isolated cultures is directly related to the level of female premarital chastity.

What is a successful culture and if monogamy is of the basic guarantees of equality, than why did it fail to create equality for centuries?

Unwin defined success for isolated cultures as building a central meeting place. For non-isolated cultures which share ideas, the definition has to be relative, basically which cultures contribute the most useful ideas. Monogamy (or close to it) is a necessary condition for advanced civilization, but isn't a sufficient condition. According to Unwin who also studied history, a culture can survive about 3 generations of promiscuity before collapsing.

So, the one who gets laid the most or at least has the most variety is winning some innate competition amongst all other males and is eliminating all reasoning for cooperative efforts with other men?

Yes, and this "innate competition" is actually evolution which is the competition in which all life is engaged.

I actually rarely see conflict amongst men regarding women.

The conflict isn't open, it is the backstabbing variety. How would you see this? I have seen the decline of trust between American men in my life.

That seems like a rather indirect cause (not direct), if it is true. I just am failing to see how promiscuity amongst women has created greedy bankers. In fact, banking has been a practice long before feminism, and greedy people have always existed even in states of strict monogamy.

Yes it's true that there are always greedy people. The question is whether there are enough moral people to counterbalance this greed. Since America was historically a very monogamous culture, morality always eventually beat greed in America. But since America is now promiscuous, America will not be able to beat greed and the bankers will win and ruin the country.

Just my two cents. Anyways, I am not aware of any religion that even comes close to any of this.

The irony is that my views will seem freakish to most readers here, but are much more common historically than the modern mainstream is. Confucian views aren't far from mine. Also Ancient Athenian culture in general had views very similar to mine. Hasidic Jews share many of my views, though I wouldn't fit with them. I will keep looking.

 

[fschmidt]

Independent Baptists might be closer to his speed.

Thank you, I will research Baptists, but from what little I know, they seem more concerned about telling other people what do instead of practicing morality themselves. I will visit an Independent Baptist church in my area to judge for myself.

 

[LuisDantas]

The irony is that my views will seem freakish to most readers here, but are much more common historically than the modern mainstream is. Confucian views aren't far from mine. Also Ancient Athenian culture in general had views very similar to mine. Hasidic Jews share many of my views, though I wouldn't fit with them. I will keep looking.

That is debatable, I suppose. Still I have a hard time seeing those faiths opposing tatoos, for one. Most would probably have stricter views about the role of women than we are now used to, but that doesn't mean that we aren't better of then them on this matter.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Independent Baptists might be closer to his speed.

Good call, I was asked to leave a service in an Independent Baptist church once because my pierced ear was an affront to God.
If they had seen my tattoos they might have burned me at the stake....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I am an atheist who is disgusted with modern decadent culture. I am looking for a church to join that has good moral values. I also want this for my kids so that they can associate with decent people. I have the following criteria:

1. Must have a church in El Paso, TX where I live.

2. Must be tolerant enough to accept an atheist in the community based on shared values.

3. Must strongly support monogamy and promote marriage.

4. Must have a strict dress code in church. No tattoos, body piercings, or immodest dress.

5. Must have some discussion of moral issues in church.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

How about you skip the need for a congregation and dogma and teach your kids a basic set of values and allow them to grow and choose their own religious path for their lives should they desire such a thing?

OR....

Start your own church...!!!!

 

[fschmidt]

This is an old thread, but I want to report on how it turned out just in case anyone else has a similar interest. I no longer consider myself an atheist, I now consider myself a Karaite. I love the Old Testament which perfectly reflects my views. Karaites follow the Old Testament. There is no Karaite synagogue where I live, so I attend the Eastern Orthodox church, particularly Greek Orthodox. All the Protestant denominations emphasize faith which doesn't work for me. Catholicism is far too liberal. Eastern Orthodox respects both faith and works, so they accept me based on works. Of course I can never be baptized and I will never be Christian, but I enjoy going to Orthodox church and church members accept me as I am. These people are so much better and more open minded and tolerant than the secular people that I used to associate with. I am happy there.

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

This is an old thread, but I want to report on how it turned out just in case anyone else has a similar interest. I no longer consider myself an atheist, I now consider myself a Karaite. I love the Old Testament which perfectly reflects my views. Karaites follow the Old Testament. There is no Karaite synagogue where I live, so I attend the Eastern Orthodox church, particularly Greek Orthodox. All the Protestant denominations emphasize faith which doesn't work for me. Catholicism is far too liberal. Eastern Orthodox respects both faith and works, so they accept me based on works. Of course I can never be baptized and I will never be Christian, but I enjoy going to Orthodox church and church members accept me as I am. These people are so much better and more open minded and tolerant than the secular people that I used to associate with. I am happy there.

So you believe in One God, all the prophets mentioned in Old Testament, all the stories and all that stuff?

 

[Dirty Penguin]

As I see it you were never really an Atheist.........

 

[fschmidt]

So you believe in One God, all the prophets mentioned in Old Testament, all the stories and all that stuff?

Please see the Home Page link on my Contact Info page for a full explanation. The answer isn't simple and depends on how you define "God" and how you define "believe in", but the link explains all this. (I can't post links here yet.)

 

[9Westy9]

I am an atheist who is disgusted with modern decadent culture. I am looking for a church to join that has good moral values. I also want this for my kids so that they can associate with decent people. I have the following criteria:

1. Must have a church in El Paso, TX where I live.

2. Must be tolerant enough to accept an atheist in the community based on shared values.

3. Must strongly support monogamy and promote marriage.

4. Must have a strict dress code in church. No tattoos, body piercings, or immodest dress.

5. Must have some discussion of moral issues in church.

Any suggestions greatly appreciated.

You tried a UU congregation? I'm not sure about the strict dress code but it should have everything else

 

[D-MITCH777]

This is an old thread, but I want to report on how it turned out just in case anyone else has a similar interest. I no longer consider myself an atheist, I now consider myself a Karaite. I love the Old Testament which perfectly reflects my views. Karaites follow the Old Testament. There is no Karaite synagogue where I live, so I attend the Eastern Orthodox church, particularly Greek Orthodox. All the Protestant denominations emphasize faith which doesn't work for me. Catholicism is far too liberal. Eastern Orthodox respects both faith and works, so they accept me based on works. Of course I can never be baptized and I will never be Christian, but I enjoy going to Orthodox church and church members accept me as I am. These people are so much better and more open minded and tolerant than the secular people that I used to associate with. I am happy there.

Is there no conversion process to become a Karaite Jew?

How come you go to a Christian church if you believe in Judaism?

 

[fschmidt]

Is there no conversion process to become a Karaite Jew?

There is a conversion process, but since I am ethnically Jewish, I don't need to do it.

How come you go to a Christian church if you believe in Judaism?

I chose the religion that I feel is closest to the Old Testament. Rabbinic Judaism is just as far from the Old Testament as Christianity is, with all the modifications in the Talmud. And I like Jesus, I just don't think he is the son of God. So in church I don't repeat any of the prayers to Jesus, only the prayers to God.

 

[fschmidt]

You tried a UU congregation? I'm not sure about the strict dress code but it should have everything else

What is UU?

 

[9Westy9]

What is UU?

Unitarian Universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[fschmidt]

Unitarian Universalism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks but this was suggested before in this thread. I am a reactionary, so this isn't for me.

 

[9Westy9]

Thanks but this was suggested before in this thread. I am a reactionary, so this isn't for me.

ah fair enough.

 

[LaaIlahaIllAllah]

Please see the Home Page link on my Contact Info page for a full explanation. The answer isn't simple and depends on how you define "God" and how you define "believe in", but the link explains all this. (I can't post links here yet.)

Where do I go on that site cause I can't find any page which deals with the basic beliefs and stuff like that, other than that Karaites follow OT alone.

Doesn't this basically mean you believe in God who is The Creator of the universe, in angels, prophets, revelation, etc?

But wait it says you can be a Karaite Christian and Karaite Muslim too...
Sorry I never heard of this before so I am kind of confused especially since Christians believe in Trinity and OT is about ONE God...

 

[fschmidt]

Where do I go on that site cause I can't find any page which deals with the basic beliefs and stuff like that, other than that Karaites follow OT alone.

Doesn't this basically mean you believe in God who is The Creator of the universe, in angels, prophets, revelation, etc?

But wait it says you can be a Karaite Christian and Karaite Muslim too...
Sorry I never heard of this before so I am kind of confused especially since Christians believe in Trinity and OT is about ONE God...

Thank you for taking the time to look at the site. Traditional Karaite Judaism does reject both Islam and Christianity, but Open Karaism isn't traditional Karaite Judaism. The idea of Open Karaism is to provide one place for everyone who follows the Old Testament regardless of their other beliefs. Christianity, Islam, and Judaism have far more in common than they have differences. And this commonality is expressed in the Old Testament.

The Old Testament focuses on moral law much more than it does on belief. In fact it never even requires one to believe in God as long as one follows God's commandments. So the focus of Open Karaism isn't belief, it is following the moral behavior that God asked for.

For Christians, the Trinity simply is 3 aspects of God. So it isn't a violation of the Old Testament for Christians to worship Jesus since they consider him part of God. But it is a violation of the Old Testament for a non-Christians to worship Jesus, so Muslims and Jews should not do this.