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Atheism is not a belief, so why would anyone lie that it is?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sheldon, Nov 8, 2021.

?
  1. Yes I accept the fact that atheism is not a belief.

    80.6%
  2. No, I lie that atheism is a belief.

    19.4%
  1. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Clearly atheism is not a belief, one has only to look it up in any dictionary to see this. So lets see if anyone wants to misrepresent it as a belief in this poll.
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Strong atheism is a belief.
    Weak atheism (agnosticism) is not.

    Perhaps in the middle of the atheist spectrum
    would be those of us who are agnostics, but
    speculate that there are no gods...a silly idea.
    Just can't prove it.
     
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  3. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Atheism is a belief that there is no God.
     
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  4. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    Why does it matter? You need a "who cares" option in the poll.
     
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  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    I'd like an option for favorite cheese.
    (Parmesan for me.)
     
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  6. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    That's incredibly silly. Its a response to the assertions there is a god.

    You can't believe what isn't there.
     
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  7. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    Jarlsberg
     
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  8. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Words change their meanings or have nuanced meanings when used in tandem with other words of course, so accepting those definitions do define nuanced positions, we are only dealing with just the primary definition of atheism in the poll. However anyone is free to extend the discussion in whatever direction they feel will be edifying. :cool:
     
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  9. Twilight Hue

    Twilight Hue Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.

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    I go by the entomology.

    "One without Gods"
     
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  10. Snow White

    Snow White Veteran Member

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    It's not a religious belief, but there's still arguing whether a disbelief is a belief that something isn't real or true.
     
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  11. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    I disagree, as does the dictionary, but please cast your vote then.
     
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  12. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    If one doesn't care then one is free not to get involved of course. The poll is fine as it is.
     
  13. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Abnormal before it was fashionable
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    Might wanna make that clearer in the OP.
     
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  14. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    That's absurd,

    Parmesan really? Stilton every time, start a thread with a poll, xmas is coming and I shall be cheese shopping soon.
     
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  15. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    This atheism is a belief always made me wonder. I think people would look at me odd if I said I have a belief that I lack belief (I'm a theistic atheist?). I believe in a belief I don't have, I guess.

    Which, now that I think of it, I know why people say atheist have belief just as theist. If you state your belief "I believe in god" and an atheist says "I believe there is no god" then these are statements of belief whether there is a god or not. But saying that lack of belief in god is a religious position opposing belief in god is totally different than just stating a belief you don't have as an atheist. Statement vs. religious position, I guess.
     
  16. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Well that's why I used atheism only, and didn't qualify it, and why the poll is constructed as it is. If someone says they're an atheist it's clear people make assumptions, I'd like to see how many disregard the primary dictionary definition, and then we can perhaps discuss why they do this?
     
  17. A Vestigial Mote

    A Vestigial Mote Well-Known Member

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    I've seen it mischaracterized far too many times to simply label it as "doesn't matter."

    As the poll implies, there are people out there willing to propagate lies even AFTER being told the exact way in which they are incorrect when pretending that atheism (alone) is the positive assertion that "God does not exist."

    And these liars even ignore simple, logical examples that demonstrate this FACT (as in, something that cannot be denied without lying once one is given the knowledge). Like the following, super-simple example: If simply lacking belief in God is a "belief" in and of itself, then it is also a "belief" to decide not to believe people who say that Bigfoot or vampires or fairies or Cthulu are real. I'm not saying those things aren't real... and the person who doesn't outright believe fanciful claims like those doesn't have to say that either. They just withhold belief until the person making the claim ponies up the evidence.

    Until then, I can tell you precisely what "doesn't matter" in these types of cases specifically, where absolutely nothing can be demonstrated to be "on the line": their claims.
     
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  18. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    It's discriminatory against us apathetic atheists.
     
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  19. Lain

    Lain An Intervallic Time Traveler

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    Depends on the definition of "atheism" and "belief," and which dictionary one is using to define them, and which definition in said dictionary, and maybe even what counts as a dictionary (do philosophical articles detailing/defining the positions of different atheisms count as something towards that?). So my response is: I have no idea, no vote.
     
  20. Sheldon

    Sheldon Well-Known Member

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    Well to be honest that very claim prompted me to start the thread.

    disbelief
    noun
    1. inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real.
    Now I don't see anything in the definition there that suggests a belief to me? Parenthetically I am an atheist, because I don't believe in any deity or deities, thus I disbelieve in any extant deity, I do not hold a belief no deity exists, as I understand in its broadest sense the concept of a deity seems unfalsifiable to me, and I cannot meet the burden of proof for such a belief. I disbelieve all unfalsifiable claims, and I remain agnostic about them, as I must.

    That seem sound rationale to me, maybe someone else disagrees?
     
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