atheism is a (religious position)

[Audie]

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying

Probably that's a me issue rather than a you issue...

Nah
Makes no sense to me either.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Sorry, I'm not getting what you're saying

Probably that's a me issue rather than a you issue...

Is it a religion if I don't care about God one way or another and find the concept meaningless? Answer that and explain how it is a religion.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Atheism isn't a religion, but all atheists hold 'religious-type' views as part of whatever ideologies they follow.

We all have "sacred values", and the narratives and myths that underpin them are functionally identical to religious narratives and are pretty much essential for fully functioning human cognition.

Do you think it’s possible for anyone to be completely without attachment to myth, ideology or unevidenced belief? There must be some exceptional individuals like that. Although perhaps their own clear sighted lack of self deception is the myth they cling to…

 

[SalixIncendium]

The latter is in the form of an absence of a hobby

And therefore not a hobby.

 

[RestlessSoul]

And therefore not a hobby.

What about those atheists who regularly debate the existence of God on religious forums? Is that a hobby?

 

[Augustus]

Do you think it’s possible for anyone to be completely without attachment to myth, ideology or unevidenced belief? There must be some exceptional individuals like that. Although perhaps their own clear sighted lack of self deception is the myth they cling to…

I'd say that all available scientific, historical, anecdotal and empirical evidence shows it to be impossible in a fully functioning human.

Many basic aspects of cognition rely on narrative to make sense of everyday experience, explain how things work, why people do as they do, was things are good/bad, how things could be better, etc.

Without narrative we just have a jumble of unconnected and seemingly random events that carry no meaning, and narratives are driven by previous narratives that explained previous experiences, and so forth.

The idea one bravely "sees things as they are" instead of clinging to some "emotional crutch" like the weaker and less enlightened do is a very common myth that people buy into.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

What about those atheists who regularly debate the existence of God on religious forums? Is that a hobby?

They are generally anti theists in some form and it is not about atheism as such.
In general it is not about atheism, it is about what the world is and what matters. It is really never about atheism as such. It is about worldviews.

 

[Eddi]

Is it a religion if I don't care about God one way or another and find the concept meaningless?

Yes

Answer that and explain how it is a religion.

Because having such a position is to have an opinion regarding the existence of God (i.e. a God Concept) which informs how you see the world and go about your life - for instance a lack of belief in God leads one to a lifestyle in which one does not go to church on Sundays

The God Concept determines one's lifestyle

Even if the God Concept is that God is meaningless

Atheists don't say prayers before they go to bed because of their God Concept - their God Concept therefore determines what type of things they do

They don't lack a God Concept

They have a concept of God in which the notion is silly and meaningless and this informs what they do just like how a belief in there being a God makes believers do certain things

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yes

Because having such a position is to have an opinion regarding the existence of God (i.e. a God Concept) which informs how you see the world and go about your life - for instance a lack of belief in God leads one to a lifestyle in which one does not go to church on Sundays

The God Concept determines one's lifestyle

Even if the God Concept is that God is meaningless

Atheists don't say prayers before they go to bed because of their God Concept - their God Concept therefore determines what type of things they do

They don't lack a God Concept

They have a concept of God in which the notion is silly and meaningless and this informs what they do just like how a belief in there being a God makes believers do certain things

Yeah, but the problem is that all that is about what atheists don't do. The fun starts with them being humans and as such having a positive world view.
And since I am neither an atheist nor a theist, it is even more fun than your duality. Because there is more than one way to do God.

 

[Eddi]

And therefore not a hobby.

It is an anti-hobby

Which in a roundabout way is a type of hobby

Not collecting stamps is a form of stamp collecting

I'm a non-stamp collector and I have a collection of stamps:

I have zero stamps, but that is still a relationship to stamp collecting

When it comes to stamps a non-stamp collector is the same kind of thing as a stamp collector

It's just that a non-stamp collector has a collection of zero stamps and is not seeking to acquire any stamps

They don't have stamp collecting as a hobby

But they do have a relationship to stamp collecting

Likewise, Atheists are not religious

But Atheism is the same kind of thing as religions - a God Concept which determines how people go about living their lives

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

But Atheism is the same kind of thing as religions - a God Concept which determines how people go about living their lives

No, it doesn't for all of their live. If that was the case, then a label of atheism would be all that it is needed to describe a human, but that is not the case.
And further not all humans are theists or atheists.
So what am I if I am not a theist nor an atheist?

 

[Eddi]

Because there is more than one way to do God.

Yes

And not doing God is a type of doing God

the problem is that all that is about what atheists don't do

Yes

Atheism is any belief system which has a certain God Concept

Beyond that, there are many many ways of being an Atheist

Just as there is a multitude of ways in which one can be a believer

 

[SalixIncendium]

What about those atheists who regularly debate the existence of God on religious forums? Is that a hobby?

Probably.

 

[SalixIncendium]

It is an anti-hobby

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

...

Beyond that, there are many many ways of being an Atheist

Just as there is a multitude of ways in which one can be a believer

Yes, that that is the point.
It tells me in practice nothing that you are a believer other than you are a believer. The same with an atheist.

 

[Eddi]

If that was the case, then a label of atheism would be all that it is needed to describe a human

How about this:

All humans have a God Concept?

I think they do

And I don't think it is much of a leap to say that one's God Concept influences how one lives one's life and what world view one has - for instance whether or not one goes to church, or whether or not one believes in evolution through natural selection, etc.

And further not all humans are theists or atheists.
So what am I if I am not a theist nor an atheist?

Yes, and all humans have a God Concept regardless of whether they are theists or atheists, or some other thing

I would venture to claim that all people have heard of the divine in one way or another (be it spirits, polytheism, monotheism) and hence hold some form of God Concept

As to what you are: whatever you say you are!

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

How about this:

All humans have a God Concept?

I think they do

And I don't think it is much of a leap to say that one's God Concept influences how one lives one's life and what world view one has - for instance whether or not one goes to church, or whether or not one believes in evolution through natural selection, etc.


Yes, and all humans have a God Concept regardless of whether they are theists or atheists, or some other thing

I would venture to claim that all people have heard of the divine in one way or another (be it spirits, polytheism, monotheism) and hence hold some form of God Concept

As to what you are: whatever you say you are!

Yeah, I in one sense don't care about God one way or another and I find it as a concept so open and vague, that is functional meaningless other than a place holder of a subjective worldview.

 

[Eddi]

Yes, that that is the point.
It tells me in practice nothing that you are a believer other than you are a believer. The same with an atheist.

So you'd deny that not believing in God leads to one choosing to enact certain behaviours one hand, and choosing to avoid certain behaviour on the other????

The way I see it, either you go to church or you don't go to church - you still have a relationship to going to church even if you don't

Just as either you collect stamps or you don't collect stamps - you still have a relationship to stamp collecting even if if you don't

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

So you'd deny that not believing in God leads to one choosing to enact certain behaviours one hand, and choosing to avoid certain behaviour on the other????

The way I see it, either you go to church or you don't go to church - you still have a relationship to going to church even if you don't

Just as either you collect stamps or you don't collect stamps - you still have a relationship to stamp collecting even if if you don't

Yeah and that is not all human behavior. So what is my general positive worldview based on what I have written in this thread?

 

[Audie]

Do you think it’s possible for anyone to be completely without attachment to myth, ideology or unevidenced belief? There must be some exceptional individuals like that. Although perhaps their own clear sighted lack of self deception is the myth they cling to…

Look up "myth". It does
not mean unevidenced or untrue.

We note though that you put religious
notions in with ideology, myth, and
most important, unevidenced.

People tend to have plenty of evidence
for their idologies. Many myths are demonstratably
true. Belief in ones ( see " flood) that are demonstrably
false is in no way comparable to n ideology like
liberalism.

What's important here is belief in
the supernatural. That's religion.
It takes some real weirdness to turn
not believing in the supernatural into
belief in the supernatural.


I don't believe in anything supernatural.
That's all it takes to be atheist.

As for clear sighted ( reasonable, objective)
it may be exceptional. It's noe existent in
the religious, for whom " faith" in the unevidenced
is a highest virtue.
Most people are like that.

So yeah, being sensitive does seem rare.