atheism, christianity, and a confused Satanist

[Iti oj]

the external goal becomes the worlds mindset.

 

[jasonwill2]

so your more important then the cause you champion?

The "cause" has no reality, but what people give to it... it's merely symbolism...

idk, maybe the only thing that matters now is hedonism, the here and now maybe... or nothing, dont know anymore

 

[Iti oj]

The "cause" has no reality, but what people give to it... it's merely symbolism...

idk, maybe the only thing that matters now is hedonism, the here and now maybe... or nothing, dont know anymore

yes and empowerment of other minds, the future, and such

 

[blackout]

It helps to have some "here and now" things you care about and enjoy.
Things, goals that have to do with your 'here and now'.

The rest no one can know anyway.
So why bother yourSelf about it so much? you know?

 

[jasonwill2]

I think I'm starting to figure this all out.. and it does have the same routes.

However I do not really want to go in depth so I will give the short answer:

I am still a theist, and this brief touch with atheism and nihilism was "Satan's" way of letting me discover some underlying issues.

This whole "atheism logically leads to nihilism for me" thing, I think was a result of some "Fundy thinking" that is still deep in my mind. I've only completely left Christianity for a year or so, and I was a Christian for like 7 or 8 years... so ya. I still have some issues to work out.

Also as well I ran into a loop about "nothing but a void blah blah blah if I have to worship why not worship the void of nothingness that we will all go to? blah blah..." then I realized... and remembered some thoughts I had in the past... that Satan, as a force and quasi-intellegent entity, IS an extending arm of the void that shapes and manifests in people as a part of the void, and then some Pantheistic thought patterns of mine set in, and i defaulted back into Pantheism.

SO, maybe this is a way of my mind letting me know that I should get rid of the polytheistic parts of my beliefs (including the parts of the after-life and literal godhood), and just stick the Pantheism parts, as well as go back and try to deal with this angst about Christianity. There is also the issue that I may of inched towards atheism because I fear getting "burned" by dealing with really heavy magic i.e. messing with spirits DIRECTLY, which is part one or two uncomfortable experiences and part "fear of the unknown amplified by still existing fundy thought patterns". I have no doubt that I have not completely deconditioned and deprogrammed myself from Christianity, I thought I had at one point, but I think it will be a more drawn out and painful process than I had originally imagined.

Or you know, just the part about Christianity and fear... I kinda like my polytheistic beliefs. >.>

At any rate... I think I'm starting to get ahold of it, but I'm still not all the way there. I'll have to think over how this ritual affected me and what it means in the scheme of my religious/spiriutal convictions.

Also on another note, earlier I meant to say "evocation of a succubus", not "invocation". I did that ritual a couple of nights ago and it was a partial success... I think. Anyway, still a little spiritually rattled by all of this, but I think it was just a way of getting myself to a better understanding.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Sounds like you are tugging at your chains. That's a start, most don't even feel themselves shackled.

Keep tugging at this one and it just might break. Beware though its a thick one, but there are surely weak links.

For what is the providence of the Devil if not emancipation from slavery, mental, physical, and 'spiritual'?

 

[jasonwill2]

Sounds like you are tugging at your chains. That's a start, most don't even feel themselves shackled.

Keep tugging at this one and it just might break. Beware though its a thick one, but there are surely weak links.

For what is the providence of the Devil if not emancipation from slavery, mental, physical, and 'spiritual'?

Yes, I think this is the issue. Around August I renounced the Trinity and I thought that would "free" me, but I guess it didn't because my reasoning was wrong; I didn't actually break the right taboo for me, I just broke one that seemed the most "reprobate", instead of choosing one that would the most liberating to someone in my position.

Now, I just have to find out where that chain is in the first place (in my mind) before I can pull on it. Knowing is half the battle, and I need to find out what part is still tied to the enslavement. I guess it goes to show that I should of looked into this emotional dynamic back way then before doing something I thought would free my subconscious.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Freedom is a tricky bird..and a bit of a deception. There will always be chains. Have you seen hellraiser? When a chap meets pinhead, and the chains come from all directions, hooking and binding im..tugging on his flesh..

That's us, only we are the sort of puppet that can't see his own strings. We are conditioned to ignore them or rationalize them. Truthfully, this is because our worldview, as it sits at any given moment, depends on these chains. As they snap, or are rattled, so too is our comfort, our emotional security, our sureness of things. This is what makes the Left Path hard, dark, and sometimes even dangerous.

 

[jasonwill2]

Freedom is a tricky bird..and a bit of a deception. There will always be chains. Have you seen hellraiser? When a chap meets pinhead, and the chains come from all directions, hooking and binding im..tugging on his flesh..

That's us, only we are the sort of puppet that can't see his own strings. We are conditioned to ignore them or rationalize them. Truthfully, this is because our worldview, as it sits at any given moment, depends on these chains. As they snap, or are rattled, so too is our comfort, our emotional security, our sureness of things. This is what makes the Left Path hard, dark, and sometimes even dangerous.

Oh, but like a huge piece of glass pulled out of the foot, it hurts, but once it's gone, it feels so much ******* better.

The pain will last a while, but the rewards after each liberation... will last even longer, and build me stronger and stronger.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

It's not, but if spirits/gods do not exist, then the problem I run into is that magic will only work ON MYSELF.

Basically, in my current set-up, spells that are cast on OTHER people need spirits/gods/metaphysical links to work as a "connection" between sender and reciever. If gods do not exist, I doubt spirits and these links do too because they are all just different names for entities that are more or less made of or linked through the same stuff. For example "gods" are just powerful spirits, and the links is the energies coming from the spirits/souls.

So if I accept atheism, I have to also accept that magic ONLY WORKS ON MYSELF. This takes a lot of potential power away from me. The reason I am so close to atheism now is the failure of a few spells as well as not experiencing as many external spiritual experiences as I did before... I'm starting to think that they were just forms of hallucinations.

The simplest solution: change your set-up. You're relying on constructs too much, and I have successfully cast spells on others from a spirit-less paradigm.

Though on another note, it could go the other way as a defensive mechanism, before I got 'burned' more or less by 'playing with fire' when I was less experienced. Fear could be holding me back. Indeed, I am very scared sometimes to do certain magical acts because I fear I could attract a malicious spirit... but technically I know I SHOULD be able to ahead of time purify the air or banish it later... it doesn't stop that fear.

It's a super-complex issue, and my lack of self-awareness in about 50% of the factors at hand is really bothering me.

Yeah...it's probably in your best interest to cut spirits from your system.

 

[jasonwill2]

Yeah...it's probably in your best interest to cut spirits from your system.

But the only reason I have those fears of spirits is because xtian conditioning taught me to fear "demons" and "spirits" as well as our natural fear for "the unknown".

I WANT to be able to experience external entities interact with me... I just get freaked out sometimes. For example if you called a ghost's name, wouldn't you jump if it materialized? we are conditioned to fear the unknown, and I want to overcome that fear, not ignore that the unknown is there.

The two times being "burned", I took care of the issue.. infact the really bad one only went on for so long ( a few weeks?) because I didn't bother banishing the damn thing. Eventually, I stopped letting it play off of me, and I simply recognized for what it was (a spirit that fed off of fear), and it just started to ignore me and then left... simply because I let it know that I wasn't going to let it have power over me.

Damn thing liked to stand in my doorframe and stare at me.. at least it felt like it was staring... dunno could of been an extra-sensory hallucination, but I don't know where it came from then again too lol.

Ah, I just need to keep my wits about me either way. A world with no spirits is a lonely one.

very tireed right now

 

[blackout]

Why not just realize/REALize these Spirits
as reflections of your own?
Manifestations of the REalm that is Your Own Psyche.

YOU bring them into Being.
Essentially, You are the God
of Your Own Gods.

To face your fears,
is to face yourSelf.

Once you truly come to know them,
they will become for you as faithful allies.
Kindred Spirits.

Messengers, revealers, healers, reminders.
Companions on the path of the Warrior.

 

[jasonwill2]

Why not just realize/REALize these Spirits
as reflections of your own?
Manifestations of the REalm that is Your Own Psyche.

YOU bring them into Being.
Essentially, You are the God
of Your Own Gods.

To face your fears,
is to face yourSelf.

Once you truly come to know them,
they will become for you as faithful allies.
Kindred Spirits.

Messengers, revealers, healers, reminders.
Companions on the path of the Warrior.

because then they are fake and do not objectively exist?

besides I am much happier believing that they are in some way objective, even though I realize that I can't know this for sure

Why would I commune with something I know to be a figment of my imagination? It would feel very empty to me.

In any case i find much more power in believing in theism then atheism, even though I realize I cant know it in one direction or the other.. and because I can't know it one way or the other, I choose the option that gives me a wider range of possible explanations and experiences.

I find power in this.

 

[blackout]

because then they are fake and do not objectively exist?

besides I am much happier believing that they are in some way objective, even though I realize that I can't know this for sure

Why would I commune with something I know to be a figment of my imagination? It would feel very empty to me.

In any case i find much more power in believing in theism then atheism, even though I realize I cant know it in one direction or the other.. and because I can't know it one way or the other, I choose the option that gives me a wider range of possible explanations and experiences.

I find power in this.

Your Psyche is Very Real.


How can a thing that exists in you,
empowers you,
opens portals to you,
not be Real?

projections of the Psyche
are born in the Subjective realm yes,
but as they take further form
they can become as solid
and far reaching as this laptop.

Anyway, there is not a single thing we see or experience
that we do not see and experience through the overlay
of our own subjective lense.

You do understand that whatever options you choose...
you still choose them as a result of what you see through your own subjective lense.

*trys to get at some paradox on the tip of her psyche*

Anyway, if 'they' are Real to You,
they are Real FOR You.

Real is as Real does.

You must define Your Own Life
by/on your Own Terms.

 

[jasonwill2]

Your Psyche is Very Real.


How can a thing that exists in you,
empowers you,
opens portals to you,
not be Real?

projections of the Psyche
are born in the Subjective realm yes,
but as they take further form
they can become as solid
and far reaching as this laptop.

Anyway, there is not a single thing we see or experience
that we do not see and experience through the overlay
of our own subjective lense.

You do understand that whatever options you choose...
you still choose them as a result of what you see through your own subjective lense.

*trys to get at some paradox on the tip of her psyche*

Anyway, if 'they' are Real to You,
they are Real FOR You.

Real is as Real does.

You must define Your Own Life
by/on your Own Terms.

By that token hallucinations are real too, since that is all that they are if there is not even a slight amount of objectivity to their reality.

I prefer to believe that they are real, otherwise such heavy [evocative] magic starts to quickly lose it's meaning, as well as it's efficiency, to me.

 

[blackout]

Hallucinations are real to the person experiencing them.
The things that person does in relation to that reality,
or the personal changes and transformations they undergo as a result
can also (objectively) effect the realities of others.

Anyhow,
I sense that my point is being lost,
so I will leave you to 'your thing'.

I am certainly not out to get you to see 'reality' my way.
It would be a silly, useless and impossible endeavor anyway.

 

[jasonwill2]

ya, well you can't see the hallucinations I have, so they only will have an effect on you indirectly by how it affects my behavior... which is a result of one acting different on the delusion that such entities exist.

Candidly, the world without spirits is a very scary, finite, and limiting world to me.

 

[blackout]

Most people seem to like 'believing' things.

I instead prefer the default of
'believing completely without believing at all'.

More often now I call it
"living 'as if' "

Just thought I would throw that in.

 

[blackout]

Nobody can see what another person sees.

We bring our own Selves to everything we see.

Science attempts to filter out the Self,
and yet still,
it cannot filter out the 'human'ness' of 'the 'unbiased' (human) observer.

What would some other kind of sentient life form observe
in/given the very same conditions?

Anyway, thanks for the thread.
I like the places it sent me.

 

[Orias]

lol thanks, elaborate. I don't know what your getting at

You don't belong here.