atheism, christianity, and a confused Satanist

[jasonwill2]

Muahaha! I do not know if this is good or not.


Ok, so two nights ago... I got really compulsive because of a bunch of frustrations building up, and went on a bike ride at 2 in the morning. I started pedaling down my road, not thinking too much, and started to descend into stringing together terrible poetry into spurratic lines like a mad man. At one point, I unthinkingly said my invocation to Ha-Satan, and the ritual began.

I rode my bike further, rhyming more, and found myself in-front of that sickening baptist church I have been going to for a while. I said (screamed) some words in the parking lot, still going on with my poetry like a mad man.

SO, I just listened to what came out of my mouth, never once thinking of it while the music kept beating really loud in my ears (I was listening to music this whole time), and on the way home... I finally heard the truth.

It wasn't Satan, it wasn't anything, but me. I said something about not seeing or feeling Satan, but looking into the mirror and seeing him, and then the next words I heard out of my mouth was that the concept of "Ha-Satan" was merely my subconscious mind speaking to me...

So all the encounters I had with spirits were a product of my mind, hallucinations brought on by my mental state. It makes sense, considering what was going on around the time that I had most of those experiences. I have not had any experiences like those in quite a while. Everytime I cast a ritual, it would only work if it was a compassion ritual and not a destruction one (havn't ever tried a lust one yet). And everytime I cast a compassion ritual, I felt no "pressence" or agent working in me. I started to realize after many huge successes that the compassion rituals I was casting were only working because they were completely internal... it only took time for me to conscious realize that there are no gods, no spirits, and nothing.

Nothing, nothing at all. When I die, I DIE. When I go, I will be forgotten. At least before, if everyone forgot me, I could influence them and make their lives hell, or help people... or something. But there is no life after death, there is nothing. There is no final goal, everything crumbles.

And that terrifies me.

Tonight I am going to preform a succubus invocation I wrote a while ago. If it works, I will be thrown back into Theism. If it does not work, then my faith will be broken, and I will truly realize that atheism is the way to go.

I'm so freaked by this, though perhaps these other beliefs were merely a transition for me... to ease off of my older beliefs.. why else would I have went to that church two nights ago? I screamed, I yelled. That "god" abandoned me, blah blah blah. I tried to repent, and get "forgiven", but it was all vain. I think this stems from a similar issue maybe.

I also know that it may be that I am afraid that if I get back into heavy magic... and mess with spirits, that I might get burned again. So perhaps this is a defense mechanism, this atheism creeping on me. Because if I do not believe in spirits, why would I mess with them? Also when I was going home I was thinking of this and the thought was: "well maybe this is Satan telling me that no gods exist so that he can drag me further"

I feel so messed up right now inside. I occasionally find myself saying, when in doubt if magic will work "well if Christianity is right Satan will help me to keep me further away from Christ"

WTF IS WRONG WITH ME?!?!?! Is it that my subconscious wants to keep me away from Theism so I do not backslide into Christianity, or is it what I intuitively believe in the back of my mind?

I don't know though... I'm starting to think that I really might of been a "false convert" or what-ever... I'm not sure. For now, I will keep practicing magic, and just see what happens.

Also, after this was all done and I got home, I got to my altar and lit the candles, and preformed a closing after reading an Enochian key. o.0 I hadn't even realized until it was going home that I actually was doing a ritual in a ritual mindset... on a bike at 3 A.M. in the cold... like a madman who couldn't sleep.



Signed,

In Nomine Satanas.

 

[Iti oj]

magic still works, we just use a new set of concepts to produce it, since symbolism is still the key magic is essentially the same. For me this makes casting for others more appealing. also this realization will awaken you to your inner power. you said it your self, you produced those outcomes, not some one else. you have power. Besides do concepts exist? do concepts have real effects?

i hope this revelation can alleive some of your anger issues. why hate something that doesnt exist? though many atheist get accused of hating the concept too. even i get pulled into sometimes. have you seen any of my recent posts? like my why is god good thread where i accuse god of being evil and such.

tell me how does reality look in this new light? for me atheism makes every flower that much more breath taking every sun rise that much more awe inspiring and every tree that much larger then life. =D just think about the statistics of your parents meeting having a child and that child being you... idk i find things like evolution and astrology not just fascinating, not just educational, but with out good these things truly stand in glory. everything is from order and pattern and these patterns as for as we can see are made up of chaos. though some would argue that the underlying vibrations are pattern(myself included)

but if you need help shifitng to your knew paradigm, im always around, and im sure you'd find many helpfull posters over in atheism dir. the shock can be much for person. as would be any reality check so to speak.

anyways ends random rant

 

[Wakeup]

Let me just postulate this: Imagine the most credible person you have ever met. Someone who has told you facts and when you've gone to look them up, has always been correct. Everything he says seems to be true and you would trust him with your life. Magnify his credibility by 1000. Now imagine that one night you fell asleep for 24 hours, and in the morning that same credible man told you that night the sun didn't rise. No one in their right mind would believe him. How preposterous it would be to believe such a silly thing. There is no such thing as magic, ghosts, or a soul. In my opinion you should be atheist and search for what is pure, noble, moral and true using reason not magic or complete fairy-tale.

 

[Iti oj]

Let me just postulate this: Imagine the most credible person you have ever met. Someone who has told you facts and when you've gone to look them up, has always been correct. Everything he says seems to be true and you would trust him with your life. Magnify his credibility by 1000. Now imagine that one night you fell asleep for 24 hours, and in the morning that same credible man told you that night the sun didn't rise. No one in their right mind would believe him. How preposterous it would be to believe such a silly thing. There is no such thing as magic, ghosts, or a soul. In my opinion you should be atheist and search for what is pure, noble, moral and true using reason not magic or complete fairy-tale.

i like your avatar.
anyways
do you acknowledge the power of symbolism on the mind and perception?

 

[Wakeup]

i like your avatar.
anyways
do you acknowledge the power of symbolism on the mind and perception?

lol thanks, elaborate. I don't know what your getting at

 

[elmarna]

In satanisum - there is the enpoerment of "you." Your source your "ways".
While what your saying is you stand alone when thw choices of the church offers you nothing to rise above the turmoils you face...
You are still left with the very conditions and experience of why you left.
Incantations "invoke concepts". If you have not truly embraced them and taken them in ads truth - they will be left with no effect and the truths of you inner force will continue to manifest! Satan will not offer you anything. He will only represent to desire of what you can not see and the unattainable as long as you turn to "rites and incantations" and not the focus and enpowerment of you in your entirety.
Is it not that you turned from the church because it did not offer you what you needed?
Satan will do no different. It is all up to you on your own behalf.
Turn to your resources. What satisfies your sense of service?
Write them down. Honor. Friendship, anger, love, glory ?
That of which is the foundation of your church is deep inside you.
Look at them. Go to the mirror and reflect upon the image and the words you place in you service. Cast out what does not make you strong and reclaim and maintain your power!
GOOD WILL COME OF THIS!!!

 

[Iti oj]

lol thanks, elaborate. I don't know what your getting at

it doesn't have to be real for the symbolism to effect our perceptions and thought patters. mindset and belifs can be a powerful thin in and off them self. this then is the source of magic. its psychological.... it seems many hear believe this kind of magic while practicing a style they find fun or suiting. i think i mention more if it my first post in this thread, for more info check (damn to many dirs) make a thread in the magic dir asking about none supernatural magick.

 

[Iti oj]

In satanisum - there is the enpoerment of "you." Your source your "ways".
While what your saying is you stand alone when thw choices of the church offers you nothing to rise above the turmoils you face...
You are still left with the very conditions and experience of why you left.
Incantations "invoke concepts". If you have not truly embraced them and taken them in ads truth - they will be left with no effect and the truths of you inner force will continue to manifest! Satan will not offer you anything. He will only represent to desire of what you can not see and the unattainable as long as you turn to "rites and incantations" and not the focus and enpowerment of you in your entirety.
Is it not that you turned from the church because it did not offer you what you needed?
Satan will do no different. It is all up to you on your own behalf.
Turn to your resources. What satisfies your sense of service?
Write them down. Honor. Friendship, anger, love, glory ?
That of which is the foundation of your church is deep inside you.
Look at them. Go to the mirror and reflect upon the image and the words you place in you service. Cast out what does not make you strong and reclaim and maintain your power!
GOOD WILL COME OF THIS!!!

:shout:shout:shout:shout frubals

 

[Wakeup]

it doesn't have to be real for the symbolism to effect our perceptions and thought patters. mindset and belifs can be a powerful thin in and off them self. this then is the source of magic. its psychological.... it seems many hear believe this kind of magic while practicing a style they find fun or suiting. i think i mention more if it my first post in this thread, for more info check (damn to many dirs) make a thread in the magic dir asking about none supernatural magick.

What your talking about reminds me much of meditation or asceticism to alter bio-chemistry in the brain. And the mindset can be be powerful. But this is biologically based isn't it? Any feeling or mind set you get is entirely explainable. This has nothing to do with the attainment of some truth of the universe correct? It has everything to do with altering the bio-chemistry in the brain.

 

[blackout]

The line between theism and atheism can be ohhh so fine.

and very subtle.

 

[Iti oj]

What your talking about reminds me much of meditation or asceticism to alter bio-chemistry in the brain. And the mindset can be be powerful. But this is biologically based isn't it? Any feeling or mind set you get is entirely explainable. This has nothing to do with the attainment of some truth of the universe correct? It has everything to do with altering the bio-chemistry in the brain.

so you agree it works, wondafull
i find the study of science quantum physics biology/evolution psychology etc to be most beneficial to any magicians studies. it givens credence to the philosophy and empowers the symbolism further

 

[Infinitum]

I happened to reread the Satanic Bible just a few days ago. From my perspective it goes more than well together with non-theism (note I'm not calling it atheism). Since you're practicly the highest authority in your spiritual universe you probably should listen to what your Self is telling you.

What comes to spirits and magic, first of all it's actually wrong to assume that because A doesn't exist, B that is only losely connected to this would also false. My personal take on it is somewhat complicated, but I've always followed one basic rule: if something works, don't touch it. In the middle of the ritual you can't suddenly start doubting what you're doing or you'll lose momentum and whatever you tried to do will fall appart.

UltraViolet is so right here. The line between theism and atheism is... well, it's just as solid as we make it ourselves. Belief and disbelief, faith and reason - why pick one if you can have the power of both? I noticed Peter Carroll's "Psychonaut" covers it pretty well.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

I don't see how magic is directly linked to theism...

 

[jasonwill2]

Let me just postulate this: Imagine the most credible person you have ever met. Someone who has told you facts and when you've gone to look them up, has always been correct. Everything he says seems to be true and you would trust him with your life. Magnify his credibility by 1000. Now imagine that one night you fell asleep for 24 hours, and in the morning that same credible man told you that night the sun didn't rise. No one in their right mind would believe him. How preposterous it would be to believe such a silly thing. There is no such thing as magic, ghosts, or a soul. In my opinion you should be atheist and search for what is pure, noble, moral and true using reason not magic or complete fairy-tale.

I don't like you.

What your talking about reminds me much of meditation or asceticism to alter bio-chemistry in the brain. And the mindset can be be powerful. But this is biologically based isn't it? Any feeling or mind set you get is entirely explainable. This has nothing to do with the attainment of some truth of the universe correct? It has everything to do with altering the bio-chemistry in the brain.

This is the goal of magic! sheesh! lol. It's all about the altered states of consciousness!

I happened to reread the Satanic Bible just a few days ago. From my perspective it goes more than well together with non-theism (note I'm not calling it atheism). Since you're practicly the highest authority in your spiritual universe you probably should listen to what your Self is telling you.

What comes to spirits and magic, first of all it's actually wrong to assume that because A doesn't exist, B that is only losely connected to this would also false. My personal take on it is somewhat complicated, but I've always followed one basic rule: if something works, don't touch it. In the middle of the ritual you can't suddenly start doubting what you're doing or you'll lose momentum and whatever you tried to do will fall appart.

UltraViolet is so right here. The line between theism and atheism is... well, it's just as solid as we make it ourselves. Belief and disbelief, faith and reason - why pick one if you can have the power of both? I noticed Peter Carroll's "Psychonaut" covers it pretty well.

I've doubted myself right in the middle of it before, and it's messed me up more than once.

I don't see how magic is directly linked to theism...

It's not, but if spirits/gods do not exist, then the problem I run into is that magic will only work ON MYSELF.

Basically, in my current set-up, spells that are cast on OTHER people need spirits/gods/metaphysical links to work as a "connection" between sender and reciever. If gods do not exist, I doubt spirits and these links do too because they are all just different names for entities that are more or less made of or linked through the same stuff. For example "gods" are just powerful spirits, and the links is the energies coming from the spirits/souls.

So if I accept atheism, I have to also accept that magic ONLY WORKS ON MYSELF. This takes a lot of potential power away from me. The reason I am so close to atheism now is the failure of a few spells as well as not experiencing as many external spiritual experiences as I did before... I'm starting to think that they were just forms of hallucinations.

Though on another note, it could go the other way as a defensive mechanism, before I got 'burned' more or less by 'playing with fire' when I was less experienced. Fear could be holding me back. Indeed, I am very scared sometimes to do certain magical acts because I fear I could attract a malicious spirit... but technically I know I SHOULD be able to ahead of time purify the air or banish it later... it doesn't stop that fear.

It's a super-complex issue, and my lack of self-awareness in about 50% of the factors at hand is really bothering me.

 

[Iti oj]

magic works on all, if they know and see the casting at least, i almost do magic exclusively for others. i use symbolism to alter their mind set....yeah magic from afar might not work on others, but magic infront of them....people are quite susceptible to that

is also sad that you didn't quote me /cries ...

 

[jasonwill2]

magic works on all, if they know and see the casting at least, i almost do magic exclusively for others. i use symbolism to alter their mind set....yeah magic from afar might not work on others, but magic infront of them....people are quite susceptible to that

is also sad that you didn't quote me /cries ...

I'm sorry I got lost in all the posts.

You asked how it changes my world view? It's scary. Because, if there are no gods, there are probably no spirits and souls. This means that when I die, I DIE. And I don't want to die, not now, or ever. I want to live on.

They say that men do not fear death, but being forgotten. If I do not become a spirit/god, I will probably be forgotten in the scheme of world events. And even if I am not forgotten, eventually all will break down and the human race will end, and even the Universe will die down to the heat death.

Now does that make our lives more special and valuable? No, not really to me. Because if so, then it is merely a value that we place on it rather than an inherent value. Which means that the value of life is no more real than the value of square rocks; it's just all in our heads, like an illusion.

Wow, that sounds ironic even to me... I've been a theist my whole life, so all this is really odd and freaky for me to seriously consider.

 

[Iti oj]

ever consider that if the only thing to life is living then everything we do hold more meaning because of this? why live for tomorrow seize the day... also think of this, ever life we effect effects another life keep this chain going and what we do now effects those alive tomorrow. fight for the mindset, fight for tomorrows mindset.

 

[jasonwill2]

ever consider that if the only thing to life is living then everything we do hold more meaning because of this? why live for tomorrow seize the day... also think of this, ever life we effect effects another life keep this chain going and what we do now effects those alive tomorrow. fight for the mindset, fight for tomorrows mindset.

No, because it all crumbles away and doesn't last. For you or others it might have more meaning, but not for me, BECAUSE it won't last. There will be no one will tell the story of man, because no other races will survive the eventual heat death.

The idea is romantic, but not to me, because it's self-appointed, it's fake, an illusion. The value to life is meaningless to me if there is no eternal end-goal, and no destination.

Before, I would be with (or be part of) God (Leviathan) for eternity, depending on if I became a god or not. Of I became a god, I would be with God (Leviathan). If I didn't become a god, I would return to being part of God (Leviathan).

But now, when I die, I just DIE. At least before the worst that could happen is that my mind and spirit would be re-absorbed back into the mind of god, where I would rest in a peaceful state of bliss.

 

[Iti oj]

so your more important then the cause you champion?

 

[Iti oj]

also so what? why do you need inherint meaning?