Ask Zardoz Anything...

[Yahsaves01]

Happy to answer!

The truth in the matter, IMHO, I have posted many times on this forum. Tis the nature of the forum system that one's thoughts soon get buried in the past, so I have no problem repeating myself, on this most important issue.

Israel

What do I mean when I say Israel? Do I mean Eretz Yisrael, the Land of Israel? Or do I mean Am Yisrael, the People of Israel? Or do I mean Yakov, Jacob, the man who's name G-d changed to Israel?

All three are equally and truly Israel, nu? The Land... The People... The man. Each comes from the other.

So it is with the Messiah. The Messiah is equally a man, who is the catalyst, the one individual who marks a point in time, as beginning, the beginning of an Age. This Age is equally Messiah, the Messianic Age has a beginning and an end, just like the man. Then there is the People, the Nation, who live in this Age and continue on the path that the man ushers in.

All three are equally and truly Messiah, nu? The Age... The People... The man. Each comes from the other.

Only, with Messiah, there are two. First comes Messiah ben Yosef, the Suffering Servant of Isaiah 53. This Messiah sets the stage for the the second; Messiah ben David. One enables the other. The Age of Yosef leads to the Age of David, the People of Yosef becomes the People of David. Transformative change.

We live in the Age of Messiah ben Yosef, began at the crux of time when Edom, Rome, the spawn of Esau, replaces Jacob. We live in the Age of Galut Edom. The Exile of Rome. We await a man, a Messiah, who will usher in a new Age, an Age of Peace. Messiah ben David. A man, who leads his People into a new Age. May G-d hasten that day.

Thank you for your prompt answer. Very very much appreciated. i wonder though. Since Jews do not believe in Yeshua....which is understandable honestly because the NT is so ridiculously flawed....but since they do not believe in Yeshua, who then do they believe ushered in the Age for Messiah Ben Yoseph. Technically it is Israel who is the suffering servant but did a "Man" have to usher in the age or did the nation do it itself and here we are waiting for the next ushering in? Messiah ben Yoseph is Israel and Messiah be David will be Israel as well. Maybe this time Israel will not be bending their backs to accept the yokes of other nations....the next Age Israel will be the Iron Rod.........i am completely understanding what you are saying that the age, the land, the man, etc are all Israel.....but then again....its all Israel. If they need a Man Messiah in human form to represent the nation then who was the Messiah that ushered in this last age?
In Enoch also he writes of the Son of Man always walking with the Ancient of Days. (but it talks about him/them being hidden away in heaven until they are revealed) We see in Daniel that this Son of Man is Israel and yes HaShem is always with them. Whether they are in exile or not he is still the sanctuary. Sometimes i just wonder if Israel has more power than maybe they realize together as a people vs just one Man who they may be waiting for.


Im really sorry if NONE of this has made any sense!! lololol.....im trying my best to convey what im thinking lololol

 

[SimoneQuinn]

Great to see you over here YahSaves. Tons of good information around here.

I have another question. I live in a very rural area. I have located a Reform Temple about 40 minutes away. I am interested in attending on a Friday night, but I see by the definition that some of the doctrine conflicts with what I believe. I am still interested in attending and meeting people. My Jewish family is secular and scattered, many have passed away from old age- almost non-existent, my partial family members are mainly secular/athiest and some Christian. So I have no family to speak to about these things. This is the closest place I can find for any sort of fellowship or learning.

What would be your advice? Should I maybe attend a few times to see how it is? Any instructions for me if I do choose to attend? This would be my first attendance to synagogue.

Thank you again for all your advice!

 

[Zardoz]

....but since they do not believe in Yeshua, who then do they believe ushered in the Age for Messiah Ben Yoseph...

Good points all, and yes it's best to know how to mine for the nuggets of gold in the NT while throwing out the drek. I do think G-d had a plan with the idolatry that sprang up in Rome, it certainly did spread the words of Torah to the ends of the world, even as we were spread to the four corners of the world. Perhaps, without Xianity, we would not have survived Galut Edom. Not to trivialize the massive hardships my people have endured living in it's shadow, but perhaps without it, it would have been worse. We'll never know.

To answer your question, yes there are non-MJ Jews who share the concept of two Messiahs in the flesh, Yosef and David, who are the individuals in this multi-part equation. Since they don't accept Yeshua and mark the start Galut Edom with the Temple's destruction, you might think they don't believe in the man. But they do, in their timeline the Messiah ben Yosef appears at the end of the age, and is a contemporary with Messiah ben David. This makes less sense to me, a figurehead should begin an Age, rather than end it. But then, I never insisted my view is the only possible one, it's just the one that works for me, as a Jew.

 

[Zardoz]

...
What would be your advice? Should I maybe attend a few times to see how it is? Any instructions for me if I do choose to attend? This would be my first attendance to synagogue.

I also live in a rural area, and belong to a Reform shul. A rural Temple will be small and friendly, feel free to call and ask questions, I'm sure they'll love to have you visit. That's my job at my Temple, Outreach. We get visitors all the time, even have youth groups form local churches attend services. Each Reform Temple is different, one can't assume anything until one sees with one's own eyes. They may even have a web page. I recommend Friday Shabbat services, as morning services are often times Bar Mitzva services at least here. Again, get the schedule and do not be afraid to ask questions.

There may be more info over in the main Judaism DIR forum, which I also post on.

Shalom!

 

[Yahsaves01]

Good points all, and yes it's best to know how to mine for the nuggets of gold in the NT while throwing out the drek. I do think G-d had a plan with the idolatry that sprang up in Rome, it certainly did spread the words of Torah to the ends of the world, even as we were spread to the four corners of the world. Perhaps, without Xianity, we would not have survived Galut Edom. Not to trivialize the massive hardships my people have endured living in it's shadow, but perhaps without it, it would have been worse. We'll never know.

To answer your question, yes there are non-MJ Jews who share the concept of two Messiahs in the flesh, Yosef and David, who are the individuals in this multi-part equation. Since they don't accept Yeshua and mark the start Galut Edom with the Temple's destruction, you might think they don't believe in the man. But they do, in their timeline the Messiah ben Yosef appears at the end of the age, and is a contemporary with Messiah ben David. This makes less sense to me, a figurehead should begin an Age, rather than end it. But then, I never insisted my view is the only possible one, it's just the one that works for me, as a Jew.

thank u for your answer.....i guess i shoulf also give a little description of myself. i was born Christian and began to feel a strong strong tug towards Judaism last year. Then I found out that my mothers side were Jews in Germany along the Rhine...Wagner was the last name......so I feel like that has to be why I was feeling such strong emotions about it....anyhoo....I have read that there are many different views in regards to Messiah.....the problem I have with Christianity is that they replace HaShem with Yeshua and worship the man.

 

[King_David_James]

Zardoz,

Do Jews end prayers with Amen?

 

[Zardoz]

....the problem I have with Christianity is that they replace HaShem with Yeshua and worship the man.

You're not alone there! I most certainly am not a Xian nor have ever accepted trinitarian or incarnationist theology.

Zardoz,

Do Jews end prayers with Amen?

Amen is mostly used to support another Jew's prayers or blessings and in general means 'I concur' so it's more of a responsive nature. So it's more for communal prayer rather than personal prayer.

 

[SimoneQuinn]

Thank you Zardoz for your answers and the opportunity to pose these questions that I have.

I appreciate your thoughts on the Reform shul and I am looking forward to attending at some point in the near future.

For my next question...

How do you respond to people (primarily main-stream Christians, I find) who are confrontational about folks like us 'not keeping all the laws'? They often throw out the - 'if you do not keep one, you are not keeping any' verse, or they bring up the 'lack of stoning people as punishment' (or lack of sacrifice, ect, I'm sure you know where I am coming from on this) as their 'proof' that we are not truly following Torah. A phrase I see used, is their calling of us 'sometimes law keepers'.

I do not look upon it in this manner, but even with the best effort, can sometimes still feel their insult.

Do you have any words of wisdom for a succinct response to this stuff?

 

[Zardoz]

...How do you respond to people (primarily main-stream Christians, I find) who are confrontational about folks like us 'not keeping all the laws'? They often throw out the - 'if you do not keep one, you are not keeping any' verse, or they bring up the 'lack of stoning people as punishment' (or lack of sacrifice, ect, I'm sure you know where I am coming from on this) as their 'proof' that we are not truly following Torah. A phrase I see used, is their calling of us 'sometimes law keepers'. ...

Yes, I know these types well. The ones who attack Torah and yet also demand perfect compliance from us.

First thing I tell them is that Torah was not given to them. None of their concern.

Second thing I tell them is that we are not obligated to perform those laws which we are incapable of doing, such as those for the Temple. Which they destroyed.

Third thing I tell them is that since they think all laws are in full force, why do they not follow the one given to Noah (and they must be from Noah, right?) that blood shall not be eaten? (never met one yet who is at all concerned about eating blood)

 

[King_David_James]

Amen is mostly used to support another Jew's prayers or blessings and in general means 'I concur' so it's more of a responsive nature. So it's more for communal prayer rather than personal prayer.

Thanks Zardoz,


So one does not think?

Amun-Ra
Amen

I don't get that whole Trinity thing either, the Holy Trinity is The World/The Moon/The Sun.

The Father/The Mother/The Son, just like here on earth, on earth as it is in heaven.

Thou these days, sum seem to be looking to put aside God Almighty's will, and make baby's without the Father or the Mother, DAD DON'T LIKE IT.

These that try this, say he does not exists, he don't like that either.

I'll say one thing, they'll know I exist, Ol'David...King.

btw

Jacob/Jack/Jackson/Son of Jacob/Andrew Jackson

Puzzle on that for a while, see if one can figure out the riddle.:angel2:

 

[Yahsaves01]

Yes, I know these types well. The ones who attack Torah and yet also demand perfect compliance from us.

First thing I tell them is that Torah was not given to them. None of their concern.

Second thing I tell them is that we are not obligated to perform those laws which we are incapable of doing, such as those for the Temple. Which they destroyed.

Third thing I tell them is that since they think all laws are in full force, why do they not follow the one given to Noah (and they must be from Noah, right?) that blood shall not be eaten? (never met one yet who is at all concerned about eating blood)

The thing that gets me is that they want to bind themselves to HaShem but not to his covenant. They would rather blaspheme his covenant.....which by the way i am thinking also is blaspheming him......

ugh.....
Isaiah 56
6. And the foreigners who join with the Lord to serve Him and to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants, everyone who observes the Sabbath from profaning it and who holds fast to My covenant. ו. 7. I will bring them to My holy mount, and I will cause them to rejoice in My house of prayer, their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be acceptable upon My altar, for My house shall be called a house of prayer for all peoples.


forget about the Sabbath....they redefined that.....

 

[Zardoz]

The thing that gets me is that they want to bind themselves to HaShem but not to his covenant. They would rather blaspheme his covenant.....which by the way i am thinking also is blaspheming him......
forget about the Sabbath....they redefined that.....

Indeed. Yeshua is very clear on the subject,

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

They claim that all is accomplished, which is clearly a false claim even by their view, since they think Yeshua will return. All is all. The plain meaning of the text is there to see, any who claim G-d's Torah has changed is a liar. The only thing that changes is what parts of it we are able to do.

Did you know there's a Mitzva you can't even do without forgetting it?

“When you reap your harvest in your field and forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, that Adonai your G-d may bless you in all the work of your hands."

You can't consciously comply with this law, you have to forget something. Not every law can be done, but all are holy and forever.

How I love the Sermon on the Mount, it stands in such stark contrast to the 'church' that Edom made.

 

[King_David_James]

Jacob/Jack/Jackson/Son of Jacob/Andrew Jackson

Puzzle on that for a while, see if one can figure out the riddle.:angel2:

So Zardoz, figure out the Riddle?

Here's a clue Joseph son of Jacob is the Bull and Judah the Lyon.

The Bull of Wall Street.

G.I.Joe's/General Enlisted Son of Joseph/The Keepers of the Gate of thine enemies.

Jack is a translation of the Name Jacob, Jackson means Son of Jacob.

The Land that I have Given unto Jacob/The Land that I have Given unto Jackson.

Do ye understand?

Won't be long now Zardoz, hold the Faith, many a Deceiver will Say,"Look yonder to hither place, for there goth the Son of Man." DO NOT BE DECEIVED.

Only when One sees the Pale Horse, wielding the Sword of Jacob, then know, come David..King.:clap

Oh ye Sons of Jacob, come'n thee hither to the Lord, lay thy repent, or lay thy burn.

 

[Yahsaves01]

Indeed. Yeshua is very clear on the subject,

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven."

They claim that all is accomplished, which is clearly a false claim even by their view, since they think Yeshua will return. All is all. The plain meaning of the text is there to see, any who claim G-d's Torah has changed is a liar. The only thing that changes is what parts of it we are able to do.

Did you know there's a Mitzva you can't even do without forgetting it?

“When you reap your harvest in your field and forget a sheaf in the field, you shall not go back to get it. It shall be for the sojourner, the fatherless, and the widow, that Adonai your G-d may bless you in all the work of your hands."

You can't consciously comply with this law, you have to forget something. Not every law can be done, but all are holy and forever.

How I love the Sermon on the Mount, it stands in such stark contrast to the 'church' that Edom made.

thats funny about the mitzvah.....you dont know how many people i know would say to you, SEE! YOU CANT DO IT! NO ONE CAN OBSEVE THE LAW!!!
(these people cant fathom the thought of taking the Torah seriously)

UUUUGGGGGGGHHHHH!!!!

 

[Shermana]

Whenever anyone says they can't observe the Law, I ask them if they've seen a doctor about their murder impulses and kleptomania or if their spouses know that they can't keep the law against adultery. (The responses I've gotten about whether adultery is allowed have most often been....interesting) Murder and theft are not prohibited in Acts 15 either.

 

[SimoneQuinn]

They claim that all is accomplished, which is clearly a false claim even by their view, since they think Yeshua will return. All is all. The plain meaning of the text is there to see, any who claim G-d's Torah has changed is a liar. The only thing that changes is what parts of it we are able to do.

This really stood out to me and had me thinking, thank you Zardoz, we hear this all the time.

Yahsaves, you know how often I felt like just beating my head on a wall after just a few sentences from those people?
:banghead3

 

[Zardoz]

...Only when One sees the Pale Horse, wielding the Sword of Jacob, then know, come David..King...

Nay, first will come One on a pure white donkey that speaks, but not with rebuke like the donkey of Balaam, but with praise. This One does not have a sword, for that that is the tool of Edom and the power of Jacob has always been in his mouth... he speaks and a million angels rush to do his bidding

 

[Zardoz]

This really stood out to me and had me thinking, thank you Zardoz, we hear this all the time.

Yahsaves, you know how often I felt like just beating my head on a wall after just a few sentences from those people?

There are those who love Torah and those who hate it... those who love it, mourn after the laws they can't obey... the true meaning of Yeshua's words when he says...

Blessed are they that mourn, for they shall be comforted

 

[King_David_James]

Nay, first will come One on a pure white donkey that speaks, but not with rebuke like the donkey of Balaam, but with praise. This One does not have a sword, for that that is the tool of Edom and the power of Jacob has always been in his mouth... he speaks and a million angels rush to do his bidding

"First will come", perhaps true, the truth. I have come to find, has many meanings.

For the Almighty has the power to turn any lie into the truth, and any act of Evil into a greater Good.

Let I ponder it deeply.

[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif] and the bull Joseph will subdue the horned beast, the kingdom of wickedness, before the Messianic time. [/FONT]

Here's one I'm puzzling over, "the horned beast/kingdom of wickedness".

It is clear to I, that some Great Evil lay bound the Mist of Great Mountains some where in the East, the Mist and the Mountains are a vial, and it hides in lies on top of lies, a maze of lies even I can not see through. I suspect, yet suspicion is not fact.

Without Naming a place or it's people, any thoughts one where such a kingdom would be?

I'd assume a "Kingdom" where no News is "Good News", and Dragons are Kings?

 

[SimoneQuinn]

Day by day, the more I listen to main-stream Christianity and really pay attention to what they are actually saying, and compare that to the Torah and Tanakh, the clearer it becomes how blind I was to the facts. I just bought all as it that was fed to me over the years, I never truly checked it out for myself. Their stuff astounds me, they have to jump through hoops to make it work.They contradict themselves and then say it isn't so. This is from only little over a year of study. I can't imagine what I will realize after more time with this. I just wanted to say that somewhere. lol