Ask About Islam

[WonderingWorrier]

Are you asking if I would consider your ability to interpret the text in a given way as evidence of authorial intent; or that the ancient Hebrews were exceptions to every other ancient culture and didn't believe in magic? No, of course not.

First one.
"Are you asking if I would consider your ability to interpret the text in a given way as evidence of authorial intent".

Hebrews believed in magic too. Thats how people try to make sense of the words.

Some theists think the prophecy will happen on Earth, and some think thats what it will be like in heaven. Some think it is metaphorical and can be twisted into all sorts of things.

I could use that prophecy as an example. As evidence.
It is a popular prophecy with reasoning of magic as an explanation. Do you agree?



Im wondering if its a suitable to you as an example of a magical prophecy.
Because I'm saying there is no prophecy or magic even being talked about.

I do have evidence of authorial intent.

Can you please have a look at it with me?



The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the Lord. Isaiah 65:25


The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them. Isaiah 11:6

And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox. Isaiah 11:7



Its a bit more complex than just one, two, three.

It is twelve.


The sign language is speaking symbols into the twelve forming a Zodiac wheel.
Yes the wolf is with the lamb. Yes the lion is with the Ox.
But the lion and the Ox are not with the wolf and lamb. They are separate.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Again, why do you claim they are a "set of three"? What is the connection?

The sets get crossed over into other sets. Which wrongly gets explained as magic. That is the connection between the sets.

Showing some verses with sets of three.
Crossover is what Im trying to show you.

Like in that moon with spear verse.
Its showing a crossover between two sets of three. Not magic.



There is a lot of emphasis on the sets of three but as I showed earlier there is a set of four if including Earth.

Four directions.
South - North - West - East
Iron - Brass - Silver - Gold

And there are three sections to each of those four. So a total of twelve different directions.

 

[ppp]

First one.
"Are you asking if I would consider your ability to interpret the text in a given way as evidence of authorial intent".

You go to the trouble to quote my question, but at no point do you answer it.

I do have evidence of authorial intent.

You say this, but you don't provide any.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

You go to the trouble to quote my question, but at no point do you answer it.

Yes. That is what Im of asking you.

You say this, but you don't provide any.

Look.
The wolf is with the lamb:

The Sheep is Joseph.
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth. Psalm 80:1


The wolf is Benjamin.
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis 49:27


The wolf and the lamb are together.
They are both in the East three gates.

And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. Ezekiel 48:32


Did you understand that?


I would like to next show you the Lion eating straw with the Ox in the North three gates.

And the gates of the city shall be after the names of the tribes of Israel: three gates northward; one gate of Reuben, one gate of Judah, one gate of Levi. Ezekiel 48:31



Edit. The horse is also with the wolf and the lamb.

The snorting of his horses was heard from Dan: the whole land trembled at the sound of the neighing of his strong ones; for they are come, and have devoured the land, and all that is in it; the city, and those that dwell therein. Jeremiah 8:16

 

[ppp]

Yes. That is what Im of asking you.

Asking me to tell you what you think makes no sense. I will assume that you are unable to answer.

Look.
The wolf is with the lamb:

The Sheep is Joseph.
Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, thou that leadest Joseph like a flock; thou that dwellest between the cherubims, shine forth. Psalm 80:1


The wolf is Benjamin.
Benjamin shall ravin as a wolf: in the morning he shall devour the prey, and at night he shall divide the spoil. Genesis 49:27


The wolf and the lamb are together.
They are both in the East three gates.

And at the east side four thousand and five hundred: and three gates; and one gate of Joseph, one gate of Benjamin, one gate of Dan. Ezekiel 48:32


Did you understand that?

This is not evidence. This is just your interpretation. Nothing more.
I don't think you understand what evidence is.
Your interpretations are evidence of what is going on inside your brain. Not the brain of the author or anyone else..

 

[Sheldon]

magic as an explanation

Magic has no explanatory powers, it is an appeal to mystery by definition.

Magic
noun

1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

Thus it cannot be an "explanation" by definition, merely a subjective assumption.

 

[ppp]

Magic has no explanatory powers, it is an appeal to mystery by definition.

Magic
noun

1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

Thus it cannot be an "explanation" by definition, merely a subjective assumption.

Poof!

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Asking me to tell you what you think makes no sense. I will assume that you are unable to answer.

Im asking if the verses are acceptable to you as an example of prophecy and magic.
So I can show that they are not.

This is not evidence. This is just your interpretation. Nothing more.
I don't think you understand what evidence is.
Your interpretations are evidence of what is going on inside your brain. Not the brain of the author or anyone else..

I have showed Joseph as the sheep, and Benjamin as the wolf.
I have showed Joseph and Benjamin are both Easterly gates with Dan.
Hence the wolf is with the lamb. The words are true.


Listen to Muhammad.

Verily in Joseph and his brethren are signs (or symbols) for seekers (after Truth). Quran 12:7


The stories are not imagination.

When Our Signs are rehearsed to them, they say: "We have heard this (before): if we wished, we could say (words) like these: these are nothing but tales of the ancients." Quran 8:31



There is a pattern in the words.

There is, in their stories, instruction for men endued with understanding. It is not a tale invented, but a confirmation of what went before it,- a detailed exposition of all things, and a guide and a mercy to any such as believe. Quran 12:111



A known worldwide pattern.

It is We Who have set out the zodiacal signs in the heavens, and made them fair-seeming to (all) beholders; Quran 15:16


Muhammad knows what he is talking about.

 

[Sheldon]

Muhammad knows what he is talking about.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Appeal to authority fallacy.

No.
Listen to what he is saying. He is explaining what I'm trying to show.

 

[Sheldon]

Muhammad knows what he is talking about.

Appeal to authority fallacy.

No.
Listen to what he is saying. He is explaining what I'm trying to show.

Yes. It is the very definition of an appeal to authority fallacy.

"An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an authority on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument."

Quod erat demonstrandum.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Magic has no explanatory powers, it is an appeal to mystery by definition.

Magic
noun

1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

Thus it cannot be an "explanation" by definition, merely a subjective assumption.

Yeah you are right.
It is used as an explanation of how the words are true. The answer is magic. It ends at "God can do anything". Which doesnt really explain anything.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Yes. It is the very definition of an appeal to authority fallacy.

"An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an authority on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument."

Quod erat demonstrandum.

How do you know that I'm using him as an appeal to authority?
Look at the words. Not the man.

Edit.
Same with Hadith.
Hadith are not authenticated by saying the messenger said.
Hadith are not authenticated by line of transmission.

Hadith are authenticated by the signs in the words.
Some have them.

 

[Sheldon]

Yeah you are right.
It is used as an explanation of how the words are true. The answer is magic. It ends at "God can do anything". Which doesnt really explain anything.

Do you see my problem? if an explanation simply appeals to inexplicable magic or mystery, then it is not an explanation.

 

[Sheldon]

How do you know that I'm using him as an appeal to authority?

Obviously because I can read, and understand a simple sentence, here:

Muhammad knows what he is talking about.

That is the very definition of an appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Do you see my problem? if an explanation simply appeals to inexplicable magic or mystery, then it is not an explanation.

The problem is that you are missing what is said and going off track.

Question: How did you do it?
Answer: Magic.

It that not an explanation?

Do theists not use magic as an explanation?
Followed by God can do anything.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

Obviously because I can read, and understand a simple sentence, here:



That is the very definition of an appeal to authority fallacy.

Not when I am the authority.
I am saying Muhammed knows what he is talking about.

Are you sure you can understand simple sentences. You can interpret simple sentences.
Doesnt mean you understand them. You just think you do.

You can only hear what you are capable of thinking.

 

[Sheldon]

WonderingWorrier said: ↑
Yeah you are right.
It is used as an explanation of how the words are true. The answer is magic. It ends at "God can do anything". Which doesnt really explain anything.

Do you see my problem? if an explanation simply appeals to inexplicable magic or mystery, then it is not an explanation.

Question: How did you do it?
Answer: Magic.

It that not an explanation?

I just explained why it is not???

Magic
noun

1. the power of apparently influencing events by using mysterious or supernatural forces.

So no it's not an explanation, merely an appeal to mystery.

Do theists not use magic as an explanation?

Yes, and it is irrational because it has no explanatory powers, as I explained.

Followed by God can do anything.

Which again has no explanatory powers. You are trying to appeal to mystery as if it explains something, but it cannot by definition.

 

[Sheldon]

I am saying Muhammed knows what he is talking about.

I know, I quoted it, twice. It is an appeal to authority fallacy. I even quoted the fallacy for you, and unsurprisingly you have failed to address a single word of it. here it is again then:

"An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an authority on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument."

Which was of course precisely what you did, ipso facto you used an appeal to authority fallacy.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

I know, I quoted it, twice. It is an appeal to authority fallacy. I even quoted the fallacy for you, and unsurprisingly you have failed to address a single word of it. here it is again then:

"An argument from authority, also called an appeal to authority, is a form of argument in which the opinion of an authority on a topic is used as evidence to support an argument."

Which was of course precisely what you did, ipso facto you used an appeal to authority fallacy.

I'm not using the popularity of the man as reasoning.
You are.