ElishaElijah
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You accused God of something Lot did
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Arkansas inflicts child abuse on its school children
- Thread starter Altfish
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ecco
Veteran Member
Nice try at yet another cop-out. Your argument about Lot has been demolished. Repeatedly. By several members.
Furthermore, that bastion of all things Christian, AnswersInGenesis, also agrees that God accepted and approved of Lot's doings.
Yet even in all of this, God was faithful and did not forget that Lot was His servant. God twice delivered him physically, and through the Holy Spirit He conveyed to us that Lot was righteous, signifying more importantly that He delivered Lot from his sins (Galatians 1:4; 2 Timothy 4:18). Though Lot did not live a very outwardly righteous life, he believed in God by faith, and God counted that faith as righteousness.
Do you know anyone who believes in God by Faith? I'll bet you do.
Now, let's hear your rationale for God ordering the giving of young virgins to members of His victorious army - A War Crime.
ecco
Veteran Member
Proved? That's laughable. But if you did, surely you can readily find the posts where you did anything remotely like that.
ecco
Veteran Member
What Lot did with God's approval. Enough evidence has been shown that your god, according to the writers, treated women like chattel.
In any case. Care to move on to the verses you have been avoiding?
God ordering the giving of young virgins to members of His victorious army - A War Crime.
ElishaElijah
Return
Demolished? Haven’t seen that but wishful thinking and denial
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
Well that explains why you are not making any sense.
You are only looking at your own posts...
ElishaElijah
Return
You’re beating up your strawman version of God
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
No, the Bible version of God is being beaten up.
You still have not dealt with the problem of slavery in the Bible. The attitude towards women in the Bible is shown in slavery as well.
ElishaElijah
Return
Your premise was because God called Lot righteous, then presented Lot offering his daughters to the perverted men of Sodom as your example, that because of that act Lot was considered righteous and God was like that too.
This is your strawman version of God that I proved was false.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The abuse of women is common throughout the Bible. In fact sometimes it looks as if they Bible copies itself:
Bible Gateway passage: Judges 19 - New International Version
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”
This time there were no angels to intervene:
5 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.
Please note the compassion the man showed for his concubine that he tossed to the crowd.
And please note his innovative solution:
29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”
Bible Gateway passage: Judges 19 - New International Version
22 While they were enjoying themselves, some of the wicked men of the city surrounded the house. Pounding on the door, they shouted to the old man who owned the house, “Bring out the man who came to your house so we can have sex with him.”
23 The owner of the house went outside and said to them, “No, my friends, don’t be so vile. Since this man is my guest, don’t do this outrageous thing. 24 Look, here is my virgin daughter, and his concubine. I will bring them out to you now, and you can use them and do to them whatever you wish. But as for this man, don’t do such an outrageous thing.”
This time there were no angels to intervene:
5 But the men would not listen to him. So the man took his concubine and sent her outside to them, and they raped her and abused her throughout the night, and at dawn they let her go. 26 At daybreak the woman went back to the house where her master was staying, fell down at the door and lay there until daylight.
27 When her master got up in the morning and opened the door of the house and stepped out to continue on his way, there lay his concubine, fallen in the doorway of the house, with her hands on the threshold. 28 He said to her, “Get up; let’s go.” But there was no answer. Then the man put her on his donkey and set out for home.
Please note the compassion the man showed for his concubine that he tossed to the crowd.
And please note his innovative solution:
29 When he reached home, he took a knife and cut up his concubine, limb by limb, into twelve parts and sent them into all the areas of Israel. 30 Everyone who saw it was saying to one another, “Such a thing has never been seen or done, not since the day the Israelites came up out of Egypt. Just imagine! We must do something! So speak up!”
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
And here once again you are accusing me of making claims I did not make....
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
But you did not prove that it was false. I do not think that you understand how to support an argument properly. You only quoted some verses out of context while ignoring the verses that ran contrary to your chosen verses.
ecco
Veteran Member
It's not out of context at all. Is it necessary for me to post all of Numbers here?
Since you don't seem to be familiar with that book, you can read it for yourself. Then show how or why the verses I posted are out of context.
When you read Numbers you might want to keep track of how often your God kills or orders killing. It's a lot. At one point He even sends dragons to bite and kill people.
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ecco
Veteran Member
Nonsense. You haven't proved anything. You won't go back and look because you won't find anything. Your assertions hold no wter.
ecco
Veteran Member
I said
How does your god view women?
With utter disrespect
With utter disrespect
The First was about Lot whom God found to be a righteous person. If your God had said Lot was good sometimes and evil sometimes --- but He didn't. He found Lot's actions righteous!
The second example is an excerpt, taken in context, of how God and his henchman, Moses, conducted themselves throughout all of Numbers. Particularly heinous is the treatment of the virgin daughters of the fallen soldiers. However, you would excuse this and you would also excuse the killing of all the other women and the killing of the young boys.
I don't excuse these atrocities. I see them as clear examples of the mindset of the people who wrote these stories. If you want to believe that your God is portrayed correctly in these stories, that just makes the matter even worse.
ElishaElijah
Return
You said God sanctioned it, you’re tagged in #1202, if you want to retract that statement fine, clarify what you meant by that.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
ElishaElijah
Return
Pretty clear your saying God sanctioned what Lot was going to do with his daughters.
ElishaElijah
Return
Because God considered Lot righteous does not mean that when Lot offered his daughters to the perverted men of Sodom, that that act was righteous. Not moving on till you admit that. The angels did what God sanctioned.
McBell
mantra-chanting henotheistic snake handler
No, it is pretty clear that you are opposed to the very IDEA that god might sanction Lot giving his daughters over much like he sanctions slavery.
Which is what I actually said.
So you go right ahead and beat up on your strawman.