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Aristotelian Logic Primer

Logikal

Member
I thought that the use of the concepts might be useful in helping people think critically. So much is lost in the focus of symbol manipulation of symbolic logic, predicate logic and mathematical logic. I thought it would help to put things in the proper perspective for those who want to improve their rational skills. One way to do so is to go back to the concepts of Aristotelian logic and work up to modern logic.
The point of logic as put out by Aristotle was a method of truth preservation. Note I did not say VALIDITY nor did I say preserve validity. Aristotle typically used propositions where he already knew the truth value. The flow of thought would be to move from truthful propositions to another truthful proposition (the conclusion). For Aristotle we can reason from what we already know to the things we may not currently know. That is, we can GAIN new knowledge from deduction. Mathematics suggests that deductive logic only gives us what we already know. Notice this is at odds with Aristotle.
I would like to go over some major points most people today may not be aware of because most people think classical logic is outdated. Hopefully people will read this and participate and think otherwise after the topic is discussed in detail.
The intent and purpose of the Aristotelian system is to PREVENT DECEPTION in reasoning. Historically you ought to know that there was once a group of people called PHILOSOPHERS. They had a rivalry: the SOPHIST. Generally the public could not distinguish between a Philosopher and a Sophist. For even today a lot of humans think all people are Philosophers! But none of the legit Philosophers thought all people had the capability to DO Philosophy. Plato certainly did not if he stated if there is a KING that person should be a Philosopher. He did not say any body and everyone could be KING.
Anyway let me get back to LOGIC:
Here I will go over Classical logic principles and the point as I stated above my seem OCD like because the rules of CATEGORICAL SYLLOGISMS are super strict to PREVENT or minimize DECEPTIVE reasoning that some of you will have issues with them. You fail to realize the INTENT. If you get steamed about the rules please re-read the purpose of Aristotelian logic over and over again to minimize your ego and emotions.
An Argument is defined classically as a group of propositions where there are a MINIMUM of TWO premises and a conclusion. All together a typical categorical syllogism must have three propositions stated: two premises and one conclusion. Yes an argument can have more than two premises and multiple conclusions but for every two propositions there must be a conclusion (which will often be sub conclusions in a long chain argument).
A categorical syllogism is a class of arguments. Some arguments are not syllogisms. Some arguments are not deductive. The categorical syllogism class is used directly for argument evaluation--not as a language substitute as what Predicate logic tries to do. We use categorical syllogisms as a litmus test for DECEPTION only. This is not about Validity.
The categorical syllogisms are arguments that convey information. This is not to be confused with persuasion. The information for consideration is expressed through PROPOSITIONS. Propositions are CONCEPTS. They are not SENTENCES of any type. Propositions are substituted in BY DECLARATIVE SENTENCES. The same way a mathematician would use the variable x and substitute any number he likes for that x. What the proposition expresses is a message that has a truth value: either TRUE or FALSE. There is no other objective value. This is not SCIENCE where you have to be aware of something before you KNOW there is a truth value. Objectivity is NOT about YOU or your awareness. There is life on the Sun is either true or false whether you are aware of it or not. How are you supposed to know which one it is true or false is YOUR problem. Objectively there is only two possibilities: true or false. Do not talk about your awareness---that is not the field of logic. Awareness and emotions belong to that other subject that starts with the letter P.

There is no such thing as a categorical syllogism with no premises. There is no such thing as a categorical syllogism with one premise. Because you do not literally see the premise there does not mean there is one premise. The rules below will necessitate why.
A categorical syllogism has components. The first premise is called the Major Premise. The predicate term in the conclusion will come from the major premise : (the term that is not a middle term.) The second premise is called the Minor Premise. The subject term of the conclusion comes from the Minor Premise. These premises also have components: a quantifier, a subject term, a copula, and a predicate term.

The quantifier expresses how many. There are exactly FOUR quantifiers and NO MORE. The quantifiers are ALL, NO, SOME, and SOME are NOT. These quantifiers are modern terms and break the rules: MANY, MOST, MAJORITY of, etc. There is no leniency about the quantifiers because deception can creep in. so stick to the only allowed quantifiers, which means no modern terms trying to be slick.

The subject term and the predicate terms MUST be Nouns or noun Phrases. No use of adverbs or adjectives in place of nouns. This means all premises in a syllogism must END with a noun or noun phrase. This means you should not try to be slick and end with vague words which are likely adverbs and adjectives. The reason is equivocation can easily occur or other informal fallacies can occur if you violate this rule. Doing your own thing because you can is emotional and not Logical here. The aim is to prevent deception!

The copula is simply a place for a VERB. That verb ought to be IS or ARE or some variant containing those two choices--Not something you choose just because you want to.

Then there is the RELATIONSHIP part called the MIDDLE TERM. The Middle term relates the propositions to each other. With no middle term you have NO ARGUMENT. The middle term can be either a Subject term or a Predicate term. The way to identify the Middle term is that the Middle term repeats in the premises and DOES NOT appear in the conclusion. Again with NO Middle term you have three random sentences.

So now you should see why arguments must have a minimum of TWO premises. The middle term has to be there. The conclusion cannot have a middle term. Because you do not see two premises indicates a premise is HIDDEN. This is a kind of dishonest intention objectively to hide a premise because if you are evaluating an argument all components need to be there which makes your job EASIER. With missing premises YOU have to figure out what is missing! In class this is done on purpose as an exercise. In reality why should someone make you work harder? In math I cannot simply put a solution to a complex equation and hint for the professor to figure out how I arrived at the answer! That will not fly! It should not fly in logic either objectively, but rank has its privileges. Historically the answer for hidden premises is not to deceive but the initiated understand what is missing so it is not a problem. It is a given or well known so it is not stated for the initiated.

A sorities is a chain argument that has categorical form. That is, it has MORE THAN three propositions and more than one conclusion. Some of the premises or sub conclusions may be hidden.

An Enthymeme is an argument with hidden material such as an unstated premise or an unstated conclusion. Still there are at least two propositions whether you SEE them or not.

An Epicheirema is a casual argument where at least one premise expresses a reason for believing the proposition to be true. Usually this is done all in the same sentence:
All M is P BECAUSE of R.
All S is M .
Therefore, S is a P.

this is commonly written today in the form of IF . . . THEN statements. This is likely the reason why math calls the first part the hypothesis and the part that comes after THEN is called the Conclusion. Notice the hidden premise!

This does not make all IF. . . THEN statements arguments automatically. These types of statements are called conditionals technically. A large number of IF . . . THEN statements can be made into syllogisms as above.

What you really see in an Epicheirema is TWO syllogisms! The first premise is a syllogism by itself. The initial premise you read states the conclusion first and the BECAUSE portion indicates one of the premises; and the second premise is hidden all in that ONE sentence. Then after that syllogism in the first premise is stated the second premise of the MAIN syllogism is stated and finally the conclusion.
There are three forms of Epicheirema. One where the casual premise is in the major premise, one where the casual premise is in the minor premise; and finally both the major premise and the minor premises have a casual premise in them.

There is a lot of technical material above. I will end here because of time. Your thoughts and questions will be appreciated. I hope this will be a blessing for someone.
 
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Logikal

Member
I will continue with the basics of the technical portion of deductive logic in hopes it clears the idea of logic in some of the readers. I hope it would show "Why" someone should know about logic in the first place. I maintain the initial purpose of logic that Aristotle put forth was not Math and it was not symbolic. Aristotle used language: he used written out sentences (not symbols) to relay ideas. The system is objective and arguably not invented by man, but discovered.

All categorical syllogisms have a form, which you should see why logic is called FORMAL. The notion of syllogistic FIGURE demonstrated the form of a syllogism. The FIGURE of an argument indicates how some of the components are arranged. The easiest way to categorize figure is to locate the Middle Term. The middle term can be a subject or a predicate in a premise as discussed previously above. With that said there are only four places a middle term can go. I will provide a diagram to show the figures where S = subject term, P= predicate term, M= the middle term and a dash like this " -" will stand for a copula:
Fig -1
M - P
S - M
--------
S - P

Fig-2
P - M
S - M
-------
S -P

Fig-3
M - P
M - S
--------
S - P

Fig-4
P - M
M - S
---------
S - P

Naturally a Quantifier would go before any subject term, but the quantifier plays no role in the Figure of an argument. The quantifier DOES play a role though: it describes what types of propositions you are dealing with. Quantifiers tell you how many but also tells you THE MOOD of an argument. The MOOD indicates what types of propositions are in the argument and there are FOUR MOODS: A, E, I, and O. No, there is no U or Y!! The mood does not stand for vowels. It only appears that way to some of us. The A, E, I, O mood came from latin names for the mood but we shortened it along the way since no one speaks that type of latin anymore. The A mood stands for a Universal Affirmative proposition: All S is P. The E mood stands for a Universal Negative proposition. Note that Universal propositions discuss 100% or 0% of a class with no exceptions. So if you are talking about anything greater than 0 but less than 100% you OUGHT to use a PARTICULAR proposition. A PARTICULAR proposition begins with the quantifier SOME. There are two types of particular propositions: I and O as mentioned above. The I mood is represented by Some S is P, which is a Particular Affirmative proposition. The O proposition is represented by Some S IS NOT P. Here one should realize that the copula seems attached to the quantifier here. That is, latter on once we transform quantifiers into other propositions, you will see whenever you transform an O proposition the copula changes too. Also notice that the copula being attached to the SOME here makes this proposition a Particular Negative.
In summary, you have four types of propositions. There are two universal propositions. Each universal proposition is either affirmative or negative. Then you have two particular propositions. Each particular proposition is either affirmative or negative. The MOOD of an argument or syllogism is based on the quantifier. There are two moods for the Universal propositions: A and E. There are two moods as well for the Particular propositions: I and O.
The figure is easily determined by locating the middle term in an argument. There are only four figures (but Aristotle considered the fourth figure a variant of the first figure-- so he had only three). So there you have it: four figures and four moods to all arguments. That makes different ways an argument can be formulated by someone which turns out to be 256 possible combinations.
 

Logikal

Member
I would like to go into distribution of terms. Many people have difficulties trying to grasp what distribution refers to. Hopefully I can explain this in a way that is helpful.
Distribution refers to mentioning and describing an attribute to all of a class. Practically speaking, this means we are giving something a name and applying it UNIVERSALLY. In this way, a Universal Quantifier is usually expressed. That is an A proposition, an E proposition is usually used to label some attribute. But wait, that is not all the quantifiers that can distribute an attribute: The O proposition also distributes a term by excluding some individual or individuals. Let me explain:

When I say "All dogs are animals" I am expressing an A proposition as discussed above. I am also expressing the 100% of dogs fall into the class of "animals." The "DISTRIBUTION " is when I express something (100% of something) belongs inside of a class for A propositions. A propositions will never refer to less than 100% of something. If there is 1 or 2 exceptions then the proposition has a false truth value and likely the wrong quantifier was used. It turns out in all examples of A propositions only one term is distributed: that is the SUBJECT term. I am saying 100% of this x belongs to the class of THAT y without exception or excuses. How can I be certain of that? Well if I tried to express that the predicate term was distributed I would be saying 100% of animals are in a class of something which is not expressed in the proposition given as is! That is the something that the predicate term is trying to say is not expressed in the A proposition at all. Surely if I said 100% of animals are dogs this is a FALSE truth value! So if you can find one example that creates an exception to the rule you have shown an invalid method. INVALID METHOD refers to a truth preserving thought process that never fails! This context is a bit different from what math USES. VALID then would refer to a thought process or METHOD that would allow me to BEGIN with a truthful claim and GUARANTEE me that my FINAL related thought will ALSO be TRUE. If there is one false instance in THAT PATTERN then that pattern is INVALID-- in other words the method or PATTERN is untrustworthy! All dogs are animals happens to be true. All animals are dogs is blatantly false. So we are not allowed to blindly switch subject and predicate terms in an A proposition for the stated reason: we will sometimes come up with a false conclusion!!!! We might get some of our bold claims correct, but this is accidental. If the method produces one false result the method is invalid. I did not say the method will always result in false claims, but at least half will end up false: for every one you can find correct by swapping subject and predicates I can find one or more where the claim is BLATANTLY false. The swapping of subject and predicate terms is an immediate inference called "conversion". There are valid methods for using conversion but all of them are not valid as in trying to convert an A proposition. So validity and invalidity used to once refer to describing a reliable method of chaining related thoughts together were one thought (a proposition) is said to follow from other thoughts (also propositions). The reliable method we are discussing would eliminate any possible chance of error if the relationships were correctly used: in this way many people have encountered the definition of logic as the science or art of "correct thinking" in some texts.
The E proposition distributes or expresses a class in both directions. When I say NO Dogs are Birds I am expressing that 100% are NOT. Basically we can also say 0%. We are expressing the same thing either way. I am saying 100% of all dogs do not belong to the class of birds. I could also say 0% of dog are birds. The minute we refer to 100% of something we are expressing a universal proposition. You will notice you can switch subject terms and predicate terms with an E proposition without a false truth value ever, ever occurring. Hence conversion of E type propositions is VALID. I am saying 100% of dogs are not birds and vice versa. In this way, both the subject and predicate terms are said to be distributed. I am putting something in a container, naming it and I am referring to 100% of something --no less than 100%.
What happens when we don't have 100%? Well the you use Particular quantifiers--it is that simple. The is no majority of, many, most, and so on. All of those modern terms express the SOME quantifier because you are dealing with less than 100%. It is important to note that an I proposition does not distribute anything for that same reason (being less than 100%). When I say SOME men are married people I do not put 100% of the subject term into the class of married people. It may be 5% or 78% or 97%. Any number you like that is absolutely not 0% and not 100%. Those numbers are reserved.
The O proposition is like its cousin the E proposition. When I say Some men are NOT married people, I am expressing that 100% of men are not in the class of married people. We see the 100% are not once again. Here we cannot substitute 0% with SOME. It turns out that quite often SOME implies some are not. Whenever SOME . . .ARE propositions implies SOME . . . . ARE NOT propositions are times when both universal quantifiers are false. Practically SOME expresses AT LEAST ONE for this reason: it can't be 0% or 100% because those are the universals. So we are left with anything greater than one and less than 100 in math terms: >0 and <100 for the quantifiers with SOME. SOME s are NOT p expresses that there is at least one p that exists and that one is also not a class member of p. So I am really saying there is a minimum of one and not 100% of something. So with the proposition Some men are NOT married I am expressing that there is minimum of one man who is single (but there could be more than one). You will notice the subject term is not distributed because it expresses less than 100% one you see the copula ARE NOT. You will notice the predicate term is referring to 100% of the subject term does not qualify for the predicate term. If you switch the subject term with the predicate term you MIGHT sometimes get a true claim:
Some apples are not red fruit converted would be some red fruits are not apples. That seems true but if I can find a blatantly false claim with this patern then the method of conversion with O propositions is FALSE and said to be an invalid inference: Some humans are not women for instance would be converted to Some women are not human beings. This is false of course. [ NOTICE I did NOT USE AXIOMS. I refer to a method and not symbol manipulation.]
I hope that can clear some ideas up about what the textbook is describing about distribution. I would glady be open to any suggestions, criticisms or correction in any of this topic from you. [All or Some of you, your choice.] If you think this is good, bad, indifferent, other, etc. please comment below.
 
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Logikal

Member
what do the abbreviations mean? This is not clear. The logical method ought to be clear. There should be little chance of anything else BUT TRUTH being expressed. It doesn't have to persuade. Logic is not a substitute for modern language or ordinary language. Logic as Aristotle put forth is for argument evaluation and reasoning evaluation-- NOT "how do I put this into symbols?"
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
So much is lost in the focus of symbol manipulation of symbolic logic, predicate logic and mathematical logic.
Symbolic logic is mathematical logic, and predicate logic is one form of classical (symbolic) logic, distinguished from (also mathematical/symbolic) propositional logic. Classical symbolic logic is closer to the spirit of Aristotelian logic than is Aristotle's Greek to translations of Aristotle. If you can't read Greek, a course in symbolic logic will serve you better to understand Aristotelian logic than will reading translations of Aristotle (true, this is merely my opinion, but it is based on reading Aristotle in his original Greek as well as in German and English translations AND both using and teaching symbolic logic). For one thing, perhaps the most well-known issue in Aristotelian logic

I thought it would help to put things in the proper perspective for those who want to improve their rational skills. One way to do so is to go back to the concepts of Aristotelian logic and work up to modern logic.
The point of logic as put out by Aristotle was a method of truth preservation. Note I did not say VALIDITY nor did I say preserve validity. Aristotle typically used propositions where he already knew the truth value. The flow of thought would be to move from truthful propositions to another truthful proposition (the conclusion). For Aristotle we can reason from what we already know to the things we may not currently know. That is, we can GAIN new knowledge from deduction. Mathematics suggests that deductive logic only gives us what we already know. Notice this is at odds with Aristotle, who proposed that future tense statements about a ναυμαχία were propositions, failed to proffer a suitable argument against the fatalism he stated this entailed (despite his best attempts), and which remained basically unaddressed until the development of modal logic/possible world semantics

Historically you ought to know that there was once a group of people called PHILOSOPHERS. They had a rivalry: the SOPHIST.
Wrong.

Generally the public could not distinguish between a Philosopher and a Sophist.
Neither could Greek philosophers nor sophists (the English lexemes and their corresponding lexemes in Greek are too distinct).

But none of the legit Philosophers thought all people had the capability to DO Philosophy.
Nor did they conceptualize it as you do.

Here I will go over Classical logic principles
You don't cite books and sections/chapters/line numbers/etc. from ANY classical works. Your presentation is that of one who doesn't really understand anything from the Greeks (including Aristotle) but whose familiarity with classical logic depends upon a modern and limited familiarity.

The copula is simply a place for a VERB. That verb ought to be IS or ARE or some variant containing those two choices--Not something you choose just because you want to.
Unless one knows classical Greek (cf. the relevant TAM conjugations of γίγνομαι).

The Middle term relates the propositions to each other.
Seriously?

So now you should see why arguments must have a minimum of TWO premises.
The LNC and excluded middle (despite their Aristotelian origin) be damned, apparently. Again, wrong.

A sorities is a chain argument that has categorical form.
Wrong. It is not only impossible to address in either Aristotelian logic proper or using Aristotle's actual works, but currently is best addressed using Zadeh's approach from the mid-20th century and impossible to address in any other logic. Aristotelian logic is binary, the sorites paradox (which isn't a chain) requires many-valued logics.

That is, it has MORE THAN three propositions and more than one conclusion. Some of the premises or sub conclusions may be hidden.
The sorites problem has nothing to do with multiple propositions, hidden or no, but with the problem of "vagueness" or binary truth-value assignment.
 

Logikal

Member
Thank you for your reply. However, it seems that some concepts are misunderstood by you.

I did not cite any books because there are multiple that express what I have stated above. In other words I can point to more than one historical book that expresses what I have said. You seem to be confusing history with etymology. The term philosopher was certainly used by some historic philosophers such as Saint Thomist Aquinas and others. Those people certainly did not think everyone was a philosopher. It seems obvious that philosophers had a certain SWAG which was recognizable to the initiated. You state no one could tell the difference between a Sophist and a Philosopher which is clearly at odds with MANY writers: Plato, Aristotle, St. Aquinas, and so on. Are you seriously saying Plato and Aristotle liked Sophist? Are you saying they could not distinguish the difference? Clearly Plato could if Plato suggested PHILOSOPHERS should be KING in his historical writing. Clearly this suggests that there is some kind of criteria to be a philosopher --and everyone does not have it!!!! Aristotle hints at the difference between PHILOSOPHERS and everyone else in The Rhetoric. There has always been persuasive speakers but Aristotle suggests HIS method is BETTER and shows why using syllogisms work better rationally. If this was already being done the possibility for Aristotle to make the distinction would be pointless. The hidden message is that one OUGHT to do it THIS way (his way) and NOT THAT way --meaning the other guys (the Sophist). I guess you are just reading LITERALLY and not seeing the jabs that are in context.

I would further guess you are the type of person who will debate what A PROPOSITION is by definition. I say this because of your literal word for word approach so far. Words are NOT defined by etymology but by context. There is no authority over WORDS. A dictionary is not needed, but some people need a crutch to lean on. Your message about copulas above is pure etymology which is NOT being discussed. Why do you bring it up? You are aware that I am translating the CONCEPTS taught and expressed by Aristotle into ENGLISH right? I never quoted anyone. There is no need to because there are ample historical works I can name that EXPRESS the same ideas. A proposition is something EXPRESSED and not to be nit picked verbatim. I can express the same proposition in many different sentences using English. This is of course WHY propositions ARE NOT SENTENCES.

If you are stating a sorties is not spoken or expressed by other historical writers you are mistaken. Perhaps Aristotle did not LITERALLY use the word SORITES does not mean he could not express the concept. Why is it other classical writers understood the context? because different terms are literally used does not change the context! There are several catholic sources on logic and if you search there you will see you are HISTORICALLY mistaken. The catholic Universities still teach this!! It is not a lost art at all. Where are they getting it from? They have been teaching this way for a LONG LONG time. The terms I used will be easily found prior to the 18 or 19 centuries in texts. You are doing a PHYSICAL sense thing when what I refer to is a MENTAL thing. SORITES does not necessitate a paradox as you express.
The logical laws that math and computer science and literal readers love to express is simply showing off: look at what I can do! Look at my memory!
There is absolutely no need to even mention the allegedly logical laws to learn deductive logic. You will notice they have nothing to do with understanding any of the concepts I discussed above. You should also notice that if a reader follows what I expressed above the reader will see the alleged logical laws are logically necessary. That is, they MUST be true and impossible to violate. If you are a literal reader you will MISS the concepts. There are No axioms from the start. Axioms are not needed. Perhaps some readers will think what I have indeed expressed is a bit puffed up or concieted. I tend to look at it as a form super close to elitism but this context existed PRIOR to me learning logic or studying Philosophy. For anyone today to say they never heard of a stereotype of any arm chair philosophers in any university will be hard to believe. It could also be that people don't bother to look because they don't care. Is there no place in the Earth where philosophy professors are not talked about in all history? I assure you there are common traits once you start reading comments. If you look into the 30's, 40's, 50's the thought process of philosophers were super close or identical about certain terminology. Some may have wanted change like Quine, and so on but their training expresses they LEARNED the same concepts. Quine learned propositions were NOT sentences but he rebelled for instance.

Your disagreement with me I am close to positive is about concepts versus literal words in sentences. This will likely boil down to you think propositions are sentences literally. I could be wrong about this intuitive feeling but correct me if I am wrong.
 

LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I did not cite any books because there are multiple that express what I have stated above.
So cite them. Alternatively, refer to the original sources you misrepresent.

You seem to be confusing history with etymology.
No, I am not. This is easily demonstrated by the simple fact that I neither attempted to make nor have made anything remotely resembling an etymological argument. You're confusing (conflating) conceptual semantics/lexical semantics and other aspects of conceptualization, language, and concepts with "etymology."

The term philosopher was certainly used by some historic philosophers such as Saint Thomist Aquinas and others.
You can't even read the texts that Aquinas wrote. I can, and have. What on earth have you to offer here?

You state no one could tell the difference between a Sophist and a Philosopher which is clearly at odds with MANY writers: Plato, Aristotle, St. Aquinas, and so on.
If many did, surely you can offer more than empty assertions that this is so? You could, for example, actually read what I wrote and demonstrate it to be wrong by quoting the writings of the authors you pretend to be familiar with?

Are you seriously saying Plato and Aristotle liked Sophist?
No.

Are you saying they could not distinguish the difference?
Yes.
Clearly Plato could if Plato suggested PHILOSOPHERS should be KING in his historical writing.
Plato spoke English?

Aristotle hints at the difference between PHILOSOPHERS and everyone else in The Rhetoric.
This is as close as you've come to indicating the slightest degree of ability to back up anything you've written. So I'll use it. What parts of "The Rhetoric" do you refer to so that we can go over the Greek in linguistic, cultural, and historical context?


Words are NOT defined by etymology
Clearly and obviously true.
but by context.
Mostly wrong (google "construction grammar").
There is no authority over WORDS.
Wrong.
A dictionary is not needed
because they're mostly useless, even the OED.

Your message about copulas above is pure etymology
Completely wrong.

Why do you bring it up?
You'd have to be more specific. You have so fundamentally misconstrued what I said and so completely demonstrated your various biases by falsely, inaccurately reading ridiculous etymological arguments into my points whilst wholly missing what they were that I can't really address how woefully inadequate your response is without more information than your various misinterpretations and false inferences.

You are aware that I am translating the CONCEPTS taught and expressed by Aristotle into ENGLISH right?
You haven't expressed the concepts of Aristotle in any language.

A proposition is something EXPRESSED and not to be nit picked verbatim.
Unless one understands and follows Aristotle (or logic more generally).

This is of course WHY propositions ARE NOT SENTENCES.
No, it isn't.

If you are stating a sorties is not spoken or expressed by other historical writers you are mistaken.
You can't even use the term correctly.

Perhaps Aristotle did not LITERALLY use the word SORITES does not mean he could not express the concept.
It's a GREEK WORD genius! How pathetically inept are you that you can't even recognize the sorites paradox is so-named because THE CONCEPT WAS EXPRESSED IN GREEK AND THE WORD ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE OF GREEK! Jesus Christ., have you had any training in logic or the philosophy and history of logic?

Why is it other classical writers understood the context?
Because they were significantly more educated and familiar with logic than you.
 

Logikal

Member
So cite them. Alternatively, refer to the original sources you misrepresent.


No, I am not. This is easily demonstrated by the simple fact that I neither attempted to make nor have made anything remotely resembling an etymological argument. You're confusing (conflating) conceptual semantics/lexical semantics and other aspects of conceptualization, language, and concepts with "etymology."


You can't even read the texts that Aquinas wrote. I can, and have. What on earth have you to offer here?


If many did, surely you can offer more than empty assertions that this is so? You could, for example, actually read what I wrote and demonstrate it to be wrong by quoting the writings of the authors you pretend to be familiar with?


No.


Yes.

Plato spoke English?


This is as close as you've come to indicating the slightest degree of ability to back up anything you've written. So I'll use it. What parts of "The Rhetoric" do you refer to so that we can go over the Greek in linguistic, cultural, and historical context?



Clearly and obviously true.

Mostly wrong (google "construction grammar").

Wrong.

because they're mostly useless, even the OED.


Completely wrong.


You'd have to be more specific. You have so fundamentally misconstrued what I said and so completely demonstrated your various biases by falsely, inaccurately reading ridiculous etymological arguments into my points whilst wholly missing what they were that I can't really address how woefully inadequate your response is without more information than your various misinterpretations and false inferences.


You haven't expressed the concepts of Aristotle in any language.


Unless one understands and follows Aristotle (or logic more generally).


No, it isn't.


You can't even use the term correctly.


It's a GREEK WORD genius! How pathetically inept are you that you can't even recognize the sorites paradox is so-named because THE CONCEPT WAS EXPRESSED IN GREEK AND THE WORD ONLY EXISTS BECAUSE OF GREEK! Jesus Christ., have you had any training in logic or the philosophy and history of logic?


Because they were significantly more educated and familiar with logic than you.


You desire citations. I can do my best to do so but I need to know which concepts of logic do you say I am wrong about specifically. You made a questionable remark on my description of a middle term for instance. What errors did you see? You also remarked about Sorites. You seem to think the term only refers to a paradox. Historically perhaps you are stating the term came about as a paradox. This is super close to an etymology which you stated you were not using. I can tell you for sure the term Sorites can be used without reference to any paradox. The Copi and Cohen text Introduction to Logic 12 ed certainly discusses Sorites without discussing any paradox. The Patrick Hurley text A Concise Introduction to Logic discusses Sorites without mentioning any paradox as well. Here is a link from another book:https://books.google.com/books?id=_EXOAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA36&lpg=PA36&dq=sorites+harvard+philosophy+notes&source=bl&ots=9LwIsWMfsw&sig=x7T-pDirwzJm-guZSWzotweavD4&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CFkQ6AEwCWoVChMIgePnw5e0yAIVSHQ-Ch2KXAJY#v=onepage&q=sorites harvard philosophy notes&f=false. There are logic books published by Memoria Press that discuss sorites. There is a book the structure of Aristotelian Logic by James Wilkerson Miller. There are many others. You are stuck on the etymology and not the concept of this type of argument pattern. A sorites is a type of argument pattern and you strictly think it is all about a paradox. A paradox has its own definition criteria independent of a sorites. That is, you can have a paradox without a sorites. You can have a sorites without a paradox. I did not deny there is a sorites-paradox but that was not what I ever expressed here or ever referenced.
I basically went over logical terms and concepts. Which of those do you say I made an error in? If you can please explain why you think I am in error. Perhaps I am mistaken and need correction but I have studied philosophy and logic for a WHILE now. I am not a beginner.
Would we discuss differences about what are propositions for instance?
 
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LegionOnomaMoi

Veteran Member
Premium Member
You desire citations. I can do my best to do so but I need to know which concepts of logic do you say I am wrong about specifically.
1) The relationship you describe between language and logic (e.g., the copula or any similarly stative verb or verbal construction and predicates in Aristotelian/classical logic)
2) The nature of the Sorites paradox or sorites arguments (the two are identical; see your own text A Concise Introduction to Logic (11th Ed.) here: "A sorites is a chain of categorical syllogisms in which the intermediate conclusions have been left out. The name is derived from the Greek word soros, meaning “heap,” and is pronounced “sōrītëz,” with the accent on the second syllable. The plural form is also “sorites.”; the relevant example is that one might find in a textbook on many-valued and/or fuzzy logics- an argument that requires a reasoning chain in which the truth values of certain propositions are not binary but rather depend upon vague quantifications or degrees).
4) All your claims about Aristotle
5) The nature of syllogistic arguments
6) The nature of the word "philosopher" and all other references to any terms found in Aristotle or Greek literature more generally.
7) Elementary linguistic terms such as "noun phrase" and their relationship to logic.
7) QUANTIFICATION

You made a questionable remark on my description of a middle term for instance. What errors did you see?
With that said there are only four places a middle term can go. I will provide a diagram to show the figures where S = subject term, P= predicate term, M= the middle term and a dash like this " -" will stand for a copula:
Fig -1
M - P
S - M
--------
S - P

Fig-2
P - M
S - M
-------
S -P

Fig-3
M - P
M - S
--------
S - P

Fig-4
P - M
M - S
---------
S - P
You've ripped off Hurley's text from the Concise Introduction series, but don't understand it. The predicate is a VERB (and can be a copula). The predicate relates the subject to what you (following Hurley) call the "predicate term" and what most of us familiar with logic would call an "argument", "variable", etc., or just not refer to at all but rather rely on the multiplicity of the predicate itself and a subsequent appropriate designation (e.g., a "two-place" predicate will necessarily have two "terms" that are related to the "subject" by the predicate). The "middle term" Hurley refers to is simply the component shared by the (by definition) two-premise form of a syllogism. One cannot, from two premises, infer the validity of anything from these two unless they relate in some way, namely in that they refer to the same "object", concept, etc., or properties of one of these ("All crows are black" & X is not black " are related by the property "BLACK" as applied to crows, and therefore allow us to infer that X is not a crow).

You seem to think the term only refers to a paradox.
That's because it does. It's a central reason for many-valued logics, all of which are non-Aristotelian

Historically perhaps you are stating the term came about as a paradox. This is super close to an etymology which you stated you were not using.
The etymology is simply the use of the Greek word in relation to a (sand) heap. If one removes a grain of sand from a sand heap, it is still a heap of sand. But remove enough grains, and you will eventually be left with a single grain. There is no point at which a heap goes from being a heap to not a heap given a single removal of a grain of sand, yet Aristotelian logic demands this.
There are logic books published by Memoria Press that discuss sorites. There is a book the structure of Aristotelian Logic by James Wilkerson Miller. There are many others.
I'm aware. I've not only written about this but served as a consult for others here. The problem is that you don't seem to be familiar with these sources except to the extent you don't understand them. That's why, when I ask for citations, I don't mean sources, but literally citing specific parts of sources (particularly Aristotle) that would support the things you state.

A sorites is a type of argument pattern and you strictly think it is all about a paradox.
A paradox is a type of argument pattern. A "sorites argument" is an argument that is strictly invalid in Aristotelian logic but problematically so.
.
I basically went over logical terms and concepts.
You regurgitated them from Hurley, and badly.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
what do the abbreviations mean? This is not clear. The logical method ought to be clear. There should be little chance of anything else BUT TRUTH being expressed. It doesn't have to persuade. Logic is not a substitute for modern language or ordinary language. Logic as Aristotle put forth is for argument evaluation and reasoning evaluation-- NOT "how do I put this into symbols?"
It means "too long; didn't read".
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Wrong. It is not only impossible to address in either Aristotelian logic proper or using Aristotle's actual works, but currently is best addressed using Zadeh's approach from the mid-20th century and impossible to address in any other logic. Aristotelian logic is binary, the sorites paradox (which isn't a chain) requires many-valued logics.


The sorites problem has nothing to do with multiple propositions, hidden or no, but with the problem of "vagueness" or binary truth-value assignment.

I don't think he is talking about the paradox.
 

Curious George

Veteran Member
Naturally a Quantifier would go before any subject term, but the quantifier plays no role in the Figure of an argument. The quantifier DOES play a role though: it describes what types of propositions you are dealing with. Quantifiers tell you how many but also tells you THE MOOD of an argument. The MOOD indicates what types of propositions are in the argument and there are FOUR MOODS: A, E, I, and O. No, there is no U or Y!! The mood does not stand for vowels. .


There is so a u and y...just not in a square. One needs a hexagon for that...and we'll hexagons weren't around in Aristotle's day, at least not the logical variety.

I rather prefer the vowel w as found in the word cwm or crwth... But everyone likes y more, so I am outnumbered.
 
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