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Are Your Views on Campaign Spending Deduced from the Evidence?

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
It has come to my attention that some people continue to be concerned about issues relating to campaign spending, such as detrimental effects of Citizens United v. FEC, in which the Court held that 2 US Code §441b (§203 of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act) prohibiting expenditures from the general treasuries of corporations and unions for independent electioneering communications prior to federal elections is an unconstitutional infringement of strictly protected political speech. It isn't uncommon to hear the claim that “elections are bought,” which I asked about on a thread started last year (What Is the Process by which Elections Are Bought?) where no one admitted that his/her vote had ever changed or had been improperly influenced by a paid advertisement. The OP of that thread cites several facts that contradict the proposition that the larger amount of money spent by or for a candidate determines the winner--e.g., Jeb Bush's enormous war chest in the 2016 primaries did not “buy” the Republican nomination for him. In New Hampshire, for instance, Bush spent $34 million, which secured him 4th place and only 11% of the Republican votes. In contrast, Trump got the largest portion of votes with campaign disbursements of only $3 million.

That OP quotes from an article by economics professor Jeffrey Milyo in The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics in which he notes that “[m]ost systematic studies . . . find no effect of marginal campaign spending on the electoral success of candidates.”

Also cited in that OP is a recent meta-analysis, spanning 2,000 elections from 1974-2007, that found differential effects of spending for incumbents and challengers: In House races, “for every additional $100,000 that an incumbent spends, the challenger will gain 0.1292 percent of the vote share, and for every additional $100,000 the challenger spends he/she will gain 1.3099 percent of the vote share.” Accordingly, governmental efforts to equalize campaign expenditures only disadvantage challengers while benefiting incumbents, apparently due to factors such as name recognition of the incumbent and limiting the challenger's ability to criticize the incumbent's performance or to broadcast his/her own message.

A seemingly important 2013 study by U Mass political science professors Raymond La Raja and Brian Schaffner, The Effects of Campaign Finance Spending Bans on Electoral Outcomes: Evidence From the States about the Potential Impact of Citizens United v. FEC, began by collecting data on campaign finance laws governing elections in each state from 1968 to 2008. This period entailed 19 corporate or corporate/union spending bans enacted by states, for which the authors examined the effects on 4 outcomes: (1) the proportion of legislative seats won by Republicans in a particular election; (2) the proportion of the total vote won by Republicans in state legislative races; (3) the proportion of incumbents who won re-election; and (4) the proportion of the total legislative vote won by incumbents.

The findings were almost always null, with the rare instances of statistically significant differences being uniformly small:

Overall, there is little in the way of consistent evidence that spending bans produce any partisan bias in election outcomes for state legislature.

[. . . ]

. . . .there is not a single state in which the introduction of a corporate spending ban produced a statistically significant increase or decrease in the Republican share of the vote for state legislature.

[. . . ]

Overall, the results from our models indicate that corporate spending bans have little effect on who wins elections (at least when the “who” is defined by incumbency or partisanship). Republicans did not fare worse in elections following the implementation of a corporate spending ban, the corollary of course being that they did not perform better when such a ban did not exist. Likewise, incumbent re-election rates did not decrease when a corporate spending ban was enacted.​

The authors briefly discuss the interesting issue of the “national policy mood” variable measured in their analysis. “Mood” or “electorate mood” is a concept introduced by professor James Stimson in his 1991 book Public opinion in America : moods, cycles, and swings. It is “a weighted composite of virtually all available polls on domestic policy issues [that] measures the liberalism-conservatism of public policy preferences in the U.S., starting in the year 1952.” La Raja and Schaffner inform us that the “mood variable captures the extent to which the American public supports more liberal or conservative government programs and it has been shown to play an important role in explaining election outcomes (Erikson, MacKuen, and Stimson 2002). We include the measure in our state-level models to control for any partisan swings in the states that may occur simply because of a shifting policy mood.” It would be misguided, though perhaps not uncommon, to attribute undesired election outcomes to the sinister contrivances of corporate spending or advertizing when they actually just reflect a mood swing in the electorate.

La Raja and Schaffner also point to a large body of research showing “that while campaign spending does affect electoral outcomes, the effect of each additional dollar spent on an election tends to have a diminishing return in terms of the outcome.” They illustrate with the 2010 Congressional election results: the first $250,000 spent by either candidate has a strong effect on the election result, but after each candidate has spent about $1 million, spending has almost no influence on determining the winner. (And evidently much more than $1 million was spent by/for each candidate.) The authors note that these diminishing returns provide good reason to doubt that unlimited independent expenditures by corporations and unions will have a major impact on elections. They explain that corporations and unions are most likely to spend on close races where there appears to be a better chance of tipping the scale in favor of their preferred candidate. But it is precisely these competitive races where large sums will be or have already been spent by and for these candidates, thus nullifying the effect of their spending.

A study by John Coleman and Paul Manna examined the 1994 and 1996 House of Representatives elections to determine the consequences of campaign spending on such issues as public trust and involvement, and constituents' knowledge of the candidates. In a 2003 briefing paper for Cato Institute, Coleman expounds upon their findings as well as those of a couple of other studies, noting, “Studies indicate that campaign spending does not diminish trust, efficacy, and involvement, contrary to what critics charge. Moreover, spending increases public knowledge of the candidates, across essentially all groups in the population.”

Finally, it seems to me that the billions upon billions of dollars spent in the US on the continuous cycles of elections is surely an important economic driver (at least during election years) and an efficient method of redistributing wealth. Many of the very wealthy (e.g., TV and movie stars, in addition to corporate giants) are willing to shell out huge sums in hopes of electing their preferred candidate. This money makes its way into the pockets of the owners and employees of all manner of small and medium-size businesses--caterers, venue owners and their minimum-wage employees, IT techs, administrative staff, newspapers, TV stations, website owners, etc., etc. It isn't necessarily a praiseworthy product, but at least it puts people to work. The biggest threat to this system of wealth redistribution is that celebrities, corporations and unions may become wise to the fact that it generally doesn't work. Regardless of how popular the belief is, you can't buy an election.

So, are your views on campaign spending premised on evidence or facts that you can substantiate? If so, please cite that evidence, or state and substantiate those facts.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
It has come to my attention that some people continue to be concerned about issues relating to campaign spending, such as detrimental effects of Citizens United v. FEC, in which the Court held that 2 US Code §441b (§203 of the Bipartisan Campaign Reform Act) prohibiting expenditures from the general treasuries of corporations and unions for independent electioneering communications prior to federal elections is an unconstitutional infringement of strictly protected political speech. It isn't uncommon to hear the claim that “elections are bought,” which I asked about on a thread started last year (What Is the Process by which Elections Are Bought?) where no one admitted that his/her vote had ever changed or had been improperly influenced by a paid advertisement. The OP of that thread cites several facts that contradict the proposition that the larger amount of money spent by or for a candidate determines the winner--e.g., Jeb Bush's enormous war chest in the 2016 primaries did not “buy” the Republican nomination for him. In New Hampshire, for instance, Bush spent $34 million, which secured him 4th place and only 11% of the Republican votes. In contrast, Trump got the largest portion of votes with campaign disbursements of only $3 million.

That OP quotes from an article by economics professor Jeffrey Milyo in The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics in which he notes that “[m]ost systematic studies . . . find no effect of marginal campaign spending on the electoral success of candidates.”

Also cited in that OP is a recent meta-analysis, spanning 2,000 elections from 1974-2007, that found differential effects of spending for incumbents and challengers: In House races, “for every additional $100,000 that an incumbent spends, the challenger will gain 0.1292 percent of the vote share, and for every additional $100,000 the challenger spends he/she will gain 1.3099 percent of the vote share.” Accordingly, governmental efforts to equalize campaign expenditures only disadvantage challengers while benefiting incumbents, apparently due to factors such as name recognition of the incumbent and limiting the challenger's ability to criticize the incumbent's performance or to broadcast his/her own message.

A seemingly important 2013 study by U Mass political science professors Raymond La Raja and Brian Schaffner, The Effects of Campaign Finance Spending Bans on Electoral Outcomes: Evidence From the States about the Potential Impact of Citizens United v. FEC, began by collecting data on campaign finance laws governing elections in each state from 1968 to 2008. This period entailed 19 corporate or corporate/union spending bans enacted by states, for which the authors examined the effects on 4 outcomes: (1) the proportion of legislative seats won by Republicans in a particular election; (2) the proportion of the total vote won by Republicans in state legislative races; (3) the proportion of incumbents who won re-election; and (4) the proportion of the total legislative vote won by incumbents.

The findings were almost always null, with the rare instances of statistically significant differences being uniformly small:

Overall, there is little in the way of consistent evidence that spending bans produce any partisan bias in election outcomes for state legislature.

[. . . ]

. . . .there is not a single state in which the introduction of a corporate spending ban produced a statistically significant increase or decrease in the Republican share of the vote for state legislature.

[. . . ]

Overall, the results from our models indicate that corporate spending bans have little effect on who wins elections (at least when the “who” is defined by incumbency or partisanship). Republicans did not fare worse in elections following the implementation of a corporate spending ban, the corollary of course being that they did not perform better when such a ban did not exist. Likewise, incumbent re-election rates did not decrease when a corporate spending ban was enacted.​

The authors briefly discuss the interesting issue of the “national policy mood” variable measured in their analysis. “Mood” or “electorate mood” is a concept introduced by professor James Stimson in his 1991 book Public opinion in America : moods, cycles, and swings. It is “a weighted composite of virtually all available polls on domestic policy issues [that] measures the liberalism-conservatism of public policy preferences in the U.S., starting in the year 1952.” La Raja and Schaffner inform us that the “mood variable captures the extent to which the American public supports more liberal or conservative government programs and it has been shown to play an important role in explaining election outcomes (Erikson, MacKuen, and Stimson 2002). We include the measure in our state-level models to control for any partisan swings in the states that may occur simply because of a shifting policy mood.” It would be misguided, though perhaps not uncommon, to attribute undesired election outcomes to the sinister contrivances of corporate spending or advertizing when they actually just reflect a mood swing in the electorate.

La Raja and Schaffner also point to a large body of research showing “that while campaign spending does affect electoral outcomes, the effect of each additional dollar spent on an election tends to have a diminishing return in terms of the outcome.” They illustrate with the 2010 Congressional election results: the first $250,000 spent by either candidate has a strong effect on the election result, but after each candidate has spent about $1 million, spending has almost no influence on determining the winner. (And evidently much more than $1 million was spent by/for each candidate.) The authors note that these diminishing returns provide good reason to doubt that unlimited independent expenditures by corporations and unions will have a major impact on elections. They explain that corporations and unions are most likely to spend on close races where there appears to be a better chance of tipping the scale in favor of their preferred candidate. But it is precisely these competitive races where large sums will be or have already been spent by and for these candidates, thus nullifying the effect of their spending.

A study by John Coleman and Paul Manna examined the 1994 and 1996 House of Representatives elections to determine the consequences of campaign spending on such issues as public trust and involvement, and constituents' knowledge of the candidates. In a 2003 briefing paper for Cato Institute, Coleman expounds upon their findings as well as those of a couple of other studies, noting, “Studies indicate that campaign spending does not diminish trust, efficacy, and involvement, contrary to what critics charge. Moreover, spending increases public knowledge of the candidates, across essentially all groups in the population.”

Finally, it seems to me that the billions upon billions of dollars spent in the US on the continuous cycles of elections is surely an important economic driver (at least during election years) and an efficient method of redistributing wealth. Many of the very wealthy (e.g., TV and movie stars, in addition to corporate giants) are willing to shell out huge sums in hopes of electing their preferred candidate. This money makes its way into the pockets of the owners and employees of all manner of small and medium-size businesses--caterers, venue owners and their minimum-wage employees, IT techs, administrative staff, newspapers, TV stations, website owners, etc., etc. It isn't necessarily a praiseworthy product, but at least it puts people to work. The biggest threat to this system of wealth redistribution is that celebrities, corporations and unions may become wise to the fact that it generally doesn't work. Regardless of how popular the belief is, you can't buy an election.

So, are your views on campaign spending premised on evidence or facts that you can substantiate? If so, please cite that evidence, or state and substantiate those facts.
What I would like to see is the median wealth of elected representatives in the State and the Federal level to determine which wealth percentile of US population do the elected representatives belong. My guess is since US campaign system is highly expensive, only the rich with extensive networks with other rich folks overwhelmingly run in politics and get elected. This creates a lack of proper representation in the democracy.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What I would like to see is the median wealth of elected representatives in the State and the Federal level to determine which wealth percentile of US population do the elected representatives belong. My guess is since US campaign system is highly expensive, only the rich with extensive networks with other rich folks overwhelmingly run in politics and get elected. This creates a lack of proper representation in the democracy.
So an elected official who is wealthier than you is unable to represent you? Why?

I bristle at the suggestion that when one's net worth reaches a certain level, the person loses his morals or intellect or ability to be a good public servant.
 

sayak83

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
So an elected official who is wealthier than you is unable to represent you? Why?

I bristle at the suggestion that when one's net worth reaches a certain level, the person loses his morals or intellect or ability to be a good public servant.
People's views are primarily shaped by his peers and friend and family network. So yes, a country whose leadership is skewed towards a certain wealth group or ethnicity or gender or professional class will be unable to weigh interests properly.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
To summarize, you are suggesting that Citizens United has had little to no effect upon election outcomes, and in fact helps 'redistribute wealth' fom the mega-rich to the middle class?

I disagree.
This 2015 study suggests a disturbing loss of financing transparency; in that Citizens United (CU) not only allows for corporations to pour all they want into campaigns, but also allows them to not reveal their donations, or their sources (whether multinational corps or even outright foreign donors). Now, more than ever, the deals are made behind closed doors.

First off the naive members of the SCOTUS felt that campaign organizations would not be able to coordinate contributions across multi-state areas into individual local races, then maintain slush fund flexibility to pour other monies into federal campaigns. They were wrong. Super-PACs were born.
Second. In this time of our most abject disparity in incomes and power, the lack of transparency brought about by CU has had a demoralizing impact upon the public as to whether their vote will even matter. Likely lowering involvement numbers below where they would have been, all other issues remaining the same.
Third, again the lack of transparency results in dark money, which means that while good tracking of CU's impact might have taken a decade of campaigns or more to start getting a picture.....Now.....no study will ever really be able to track its impact. Especially citations from 1 or even 5 years post-decision. But at its core, it remains undeniably a case raised for the sole purpose of allowing the 0.1 Percenters to have greater control over who will run and who will win. UNDENIABLY.

Even if some magical study in 12 or 16 years was able to see through the dark funds, and reveals that it had "little" effect, it still needs to be removed, as we have seen, a little nudging of public whimsy can have terrible consequences,..... but more importantly, the very nature of its existance in our democracy is inherently wrong.

PS -- @Nous - I would also point out (in light of my last comments) that other than the La Raja/Schaffner report, none of your cited articles are from after the 2010 court case, and the rise of super-PACs.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
So an elected official who is wealthier than you is unable to represent you? Why?

I bristle at the suggestion that when one's net worth reaches a certain level, the person loses his morals or intellect or ability to be a good public servant.

Nevertheless history has shown that to be true, the rich do not do a good job of representing the poor.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I have to accept the evidence especially including diminishing returns.

But it does lead me to wonder if advertising affects purchasing decisions in general after a certain point. Because that is what they're arguing unless someone wants to argue that advertising works differently for different "products" being sold.

And based on the findings there is a significant impact at the beginning when lesser known candidates can be made well known with an initial pile of money crowding out candidates who don't have a campaign war chest to begin with.

There's another point that the evidence does not address. Maybe the money does not buy elections but it does buy access. Someone who donated a lot to a campaign (indirectly) will automatically get access to plead a case for some legislation benefiting the corporation ahead of the needs of the people. We've seen this happen.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So, are your views on campaign spending premised on evidence or facts that you can substantiate? If so, please cite that evidence, or state and substantiate those facts.

No. I'm more than happy to admit that that is the case. I will probably have to read your OP over again and check all the links to reach a better informed opinion. Its really good. :)
 

lewisnotmiller

Grand Hat
Staff member
Premium Member
Nevertheless history has shown that to be true, the rich do not do a good job of representing the poor.

To be fair, the poor don't have a great track record of representing the poor either.
Power corrupts, and all that...
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
So an elected official who is wealthier than you is unable to represent you? Why?

I bristle at the suggestion that when one's net worth reaches a certain level, the person loses his morals or intellect or ability to be a good public servant.

They are representatives. Wealth isn't the only factor but to dismiss it as a factor is also silly.

Quick question. If money isn't effective in politics, why then are so many politicians clamoring for it? But, for the sake of argument, lets just assume that money is a non issue at the polls. What are the people spending that money buying? Influence? You honestly thing starting a hundred million dollar super-pack doesn't gain you a seat at the table? And why should it? Why should a person with that kind of money have any more say than the rest of us? It is against everything democracy stands for.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
So, are your views on campaign spending premised on evidence or facts that you can substantiate? If so, please cite that evidence, or state and substantiate those facts.

I suppose I see it more like betting on a horse race. You place your bet on a candidate. If they win, you get to cash in. You're a supporter of a wining elected official that now owes you a favor. The larger the bet, the bigger the favor owed.

You're not buying the election, you're buying the candidate. How large of a bet do we want to allow an individual or corporation to place?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
In the old days, and still in Australia, the party picks the candidate and funds their campaign, the candidates themselves are often quite modest in means. In America today, its gotten to where the candidate has to be a multi millionaire to have a chance of winning, and call me biased, but there aren't too many multi millionaires that have impressed me with their morality and ethics, largely because its much easier to become a multi millionaire by compromising your morals and ethics, need I provide examples!! LOL
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I suppose it could be said the funding isn't the issue, it's the owed favors that come along with big donations that are the system killer. But, that works on a technicality like saying jumping off a tall building won't kill you, it's the sudden stop at the end that does.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So an elected official who is wealthier than you is unable to represent you? Why?

I bristle at the suggestion that when one's net worth reaches a certain level, the person loses his morals or intellect or ability to be a good public servant.
People's views are primarily shaped by his peers and friend and family network.
No belief has been "shaped" for me wherein people who are wealthier than I am are unable to represent my interests, or wherein people lose their morals, intellect or ability to be a proper public servant when the net worth reaches a certain level.

If someone "shaped" such beliefs for you, then I ask: Why did you adopt it? Are you not able to stand on your own 2 feet and adopt beliefs that are at least logical?

Can you cite any evidence showing that a net worth over a particular amount makes for a corrupt representative, or a representative indifferent to those with lesser net worths?

So yes, a country whose leadership is skewed towards a certain wealth group or ethnicity or gender or professional class will be unable to weigh interests properly.
How did the second sentence of Section 1 of the Fourteenth Amendment happen?

No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.​

A white man wrote it, and a bunch of white men in Congress approved it. It was mostly white men who voted to ratify it.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
This 2015 study suggests a disturbing loss of financing transparency; in that Citizens United (CU) not only allows for corporations to pour all they want into campaigns, but also allows them to not reveal their donations, or their sources (whether multinational corps or even outright foreign donors).
I well remember reading that Brennan Center paper when it was issued (it isn't a study; it's a white paper). We should be clear that Citizens United did not strike down any disclosure laws. In fact, the Court specifically upheld the constitutionality of the BCRA's disclaimer and disclosure provisions.

The Brennan Center paper mentions the failure of Congress to pass the DISCLOSE Act. That Act and Senator Whitehouse's 2.0 version seem to be dead. I opposed both of them for exactly the reasons the ACLU did, especially:

2. The DISCLOSE Act Fails To Protect the Anonymous Speech Rights of Donors Who Have No Intention of Making a Gift for Political Communication Purposes.​

https://www.aclu.org/files/assets/7_16_12____aclu_opposes_disclose_act_s_3369____final-2.pdf

I've donated to 501(c) organizations that have advocated and do advocate for issues that are very unpopular and that are virtual lightning rods for people's ire. Disclosing my name and information is not in the spirit of NAACP v. Alabama. As far as I can tell, both versions of DISCLOSE would violate that decision. If a disclosure bill is ever submitted that does not violate NAACP, I would likely support it, as presumably the ACLU would.

The odd thing is that the first underlined bullet item in the Brennan Center paper is “A tidal wave of dark money“. But the facts do not bear out this claim of any such tidal wave In 2012, a total of $311 million spent on elections by non-disclosing groups. But that figure dropped dramatically in the two subsequent election years. In 2014, a total of $178 million was spent by non-disclosing groups, and 2016, the total was $183 million. Outside Spending by Disclosure, Excluding Party Committees | OpenSecrets

We should also be clear that Citizens United did not affect laws defining “coordination”. I would likely support some less draconian efforts to better define “coordination” noted in the 2014 Brennan Center red paper on the topic, such as a year “cooling off” period. http://www.brennancenter.org/sites/default/files/publications/After Citizens United_Web_Final.pdf But I definitely do not support: “If a candidate raised money for a group, treat all spending by that group on behalf of the candidate as coordinated.” Again, that would seem to violate NAACP (depending on how the concept “a candidate raising money for a group” is defined), besides being simply illogical. The fact that a candidate might mention or somehow involve a group in a rally does not imply that all of that group's spending on behalf of the candidate is “coordinated,” which, of course, triggers disclosure laws. Why do we need the names of each of Sander's nurses whose super PAC was “one of the sponsors of [his] campaign”?

To summarize, you are suggesting that Citizens United has had little to no effect upon election outcomes, and in fact helps 'redistribute wealth' fom the mega-rich to the middle class?

I disagree.
Yours is a fair summary of what I argued in the OP. What exactly do you disagree with in what I argued? Is there a statement in the OP that you believe is false?

First off the naive members of the SCOTUS felt that campaign organizations would not be able to coordinate contributions across multi-state areas into individual local races, then maintain slush fund flexibility to pour other monies into federal campaigns.
Quote what you're referring to here. It's always tricky to try to characterize a group of Supreme Court Justices' feelings.

In this time of our most abject disparity in incomes and power, the lack of transparency brought about by CU has had a demoralizing impact upon the public as to whether their vote will even matter.
Is there any evidence that substantiates your claim here that Citizens United "has had a demoralizing impact upon the public as to whether their vote will even matter"?

The first Presidential election after Citizens United was the one where Obama was re-elected. Does that election stand for evidence for this "demoralizing impact upon the public"?

Likely lowering involvement numbers below where they would have been, all other issues remaining the same.
It should be easy to cite the evidence that the Court decision resulted lower turnout of voters. Cite it.

But at its core, it remains undeniably a case raised for the sole purpose of allowing the 0.1 Percenters to have greater control over who will run and who will win. UNDENIABLY.
So why did "the 0.1 Percenters" choose Obama to win in 2012, and choose Sanders to run in the 2016 primaries, and choose Clinton as the winner of the 2016 popular vote?

Exactly what is the process by which "the 0.1 Percenters" choose who will run and who will win?

In the 2012 Congressional races, there was a net change in the Senate of +2 Democrats, and a net change in the House of +8 Democrats. Explain why "the 0.1 Percenters" choose these Democrats over Republicans.

Again in the 2016 Congressional races, there was a net change in the Senate of +2 Democrats, and a net change in the House of +6 Democrats.

This all needs to be explained if your "UNDENIABLE" claim is true.

Please explain how your votes have been changed by advertizements in the elections since Citizens United. Who would you have voted for if the Court had not handed down that decision?

PS -- @Nous - I would also point out (in light of my last comments) that other than the La Raja/Schaffner report, none of your cited articles are from after the 2010 court case, and the rise of super-PACs.
I did realize that. I simply haven't come across any such studies for the 4 federal elections since. That would obviously not be a very reliable analysis. But you're welcomed to cite any such studies.
 
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Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Nevertheless history has shown that to be true, the rich do not do a good job of representing the poor.
Cite that evidence.

JFK is listed as the second wealthiest President (after Trump--though there is good reason to believe that Trump's net worth is much less than JFK's was). List of Presidents of the United States by net worth - Wikipedia So you're saying the JFK did not do a good job of representing the poor?

Washington, Jefferson, Teddy Roosevelt, Jackson, Madison, LBJ are the next wealthiest. You're saying that history has shown that these did not do a good job representing the poor. Andrew Johnson, Woodrow Wilson, and Coolidge are at the bottom of the least. You would say they were better at representing the poor than those at the top of the list?

Irrational animus toward people with a certain net worth is just another form of bigotry. Is it not?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I have to accept the evidence especially including diminishing returns.

But it does lead me to wonder if advertising affects purchasing decisions in general after a certain point. Because that is what they're arguing unless someone wants to argue that advertising works differently for different "products" being sold.

And based on the findings there is a significant impact at the beginning when lesser known candidates can be made well known with an initial pile of money crowding out candidates who don't have a campaign war chest to begin with.

There's another point that the evidence does not address. Maybe the money does not buy elections but it does buy access. Someone who donated a lot to a campaign (indirectly) will automatically get access to plead a case for some legislation benefiting the corporation ahead of the needs of the people. We've seen this happen.
As Professor Milyo notes in the Encyclopedia article quoted in the OP:

Policy Consequences of Campaign Contributions

Are campaign contributions the functional equivalent of bribes? The conventional wisdom is that donors must get something for their money, but decades of academic research on Congress has failed to uncover any systematic evidence that this is so. Indeed, legislators tend to act in accordance with the interests of their donors, but this is not because of some quid pro quo. Instead, donors tend to give to like-minded candidates.[4] Of course, if candidates choose their policy positions in anticipation of a subsequent payoff in campaign contributions, there would be no real distinction between accepting bribes and accepting contributions from like-minded voters. However, studies of legislative behavior indicate that the most important determinants of an incumbent’s voting record are constituent interests, party, and personal ideology.​

Campaign Finance: The Concise Encyclopedia of Economics | Library of Economics and Liberty
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Irrational arguments are a form of bigotry, If you don't think the rich are controlling every aspect of American government, and that this is fundamentally unfair to almost anyone but the very wealthy, I don't think I can help you!!
 
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