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Are there any Muslims here that support apostasy should be punished?

charlie sc

charlie sc

Well-Known Member
sooda said:
If you rape or murder or swindle, you betray the faith and the community which is "treason" aka apostacy.

I am certainly NOT foaming at the mouth. Most Americans have learned about Muslims and Islam over the internet since 9-11.

Muslim countries are NOT all the same.. nor is Sharia law the same from country to country.
Click to expand...

This is very odd to me. Rape is rape, murder is murder and treason is treason. I've never heard that apostasy means rape or murder or anything else than what it appears to be. Can you cite this somewhere?
Even from the link I gave the apostasy means to change faith and it appears everywhere. Apostasy is either changing their belief or can be seen as criticising one's belief.

In the link I gave this is what they describe apostasy laws - "This report surveys the apostasy laws of twenty-three countries in Africa, the Middle East, South Asia, and Southeast Asia and primarily focuses on jurisdictions that make apostasy, or renouncing one’s religion, a capital offense. However, several countries that have adopted broadly-defined laws on blasphemy and insult to religion, which could potentially be used to prosecute persons for apostasy, have also been included, as well as one country that expressly prohibits extrajudicial punishment for allegations of apostasy."

Wiki describes it as, "such is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs." - Apostasy - Wikipedia

So, you need to backup what your saying with evidence or it's just as assertion. Without it I can't take what you say seriously. It appears as if you're holding straws to justify murdering/punishing people for changing beliefs.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
sooda said:
If you rape or murder or swindle, you betray the faith and the community which is "treason" aka apostacy.

I am certainly NOT foaming at the mouth. Most Americans have learned about Muslims and Islam over the internet since 9-11.

Muslim countries are NOT all the same.. nor is Sharia law the same from country to country.
Click to expand...

Rape nurder swindle and apostacy all equal. So.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
sooda said:
Did you read the website YOU linked?

In most countries apostacy is tacked on the verdict with the conviction of some awful crime.. like murder or rape or grand larceny . It means you have betrayed the faith and the community.

For instance Bernie Madoff would have gotten the death penalty instead of 300 years.
Click to expand...
Death penalty is barnaric.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
charlie sc said:
This is very odd to me. Rape is rape, murder is murder and treason is treason. I've never heard that apostasy means rape or murder or anything else than what it appears to be. Can you cite this somewhere?
Even from the link I gave the apostasy means to change faith and it appears everywhere. Apostasy is either changing their belief or can be seen as criticising one's belief.

In the link I gave this is what they describe apostasy laws - "This report surveys the apostasy laws of twenty-three countries in Africa, the Middle East, South Asia, and Southeast Asia and primarily focuses on jurisdictions that make apostasy, or renouncing one’s religion, a capital offense. However, several countries that have adopted broadly-defined laws on blasphemy and insult to religion, which could potentially be used to prosecute persons for apostasy, have also been included, as well as one country that expressly prohibits extrajudicial punishment for allegations of apostasy."

Wiki describes it as, "such is the formal disaffiliation from, or abandonment or renunciation of a religion by a person. It can also be defined within the broader context of embracing an opinion contrary to one's previous beliefs." - Apostasy - Wikipedia

So, you need to backup what your saying with evidence or it's just as assertion. Without it I can't take what you say seriously. It appears as if you're holding straws to justify murdering/punishing people for changing beliefs.
Click to expand...

You aren't listening.. Nobody gets on a soapbox and publicly renounces their religion. Apostacy is TREASON... It means you commit a crime against the community.

If you think about it.. our justice system also penalizes those who betray our social expectations.

You can get exercised and demanding if you like, but that doesn't impress me much. Islamic law is not as concerned about the criminal as we are in the US.. They lean towards the victim of crimes.

Its different, not wrong.. unless you demand that every country be like the United States.
 
B

Baroodi

Active Member
charlie sc said:
I noticed there are quite a few Islamic users in these forum, so I was curious if any believed in punishment, like the death penalty, for apostasy? It seems like 25 Muslim countries support the death penalty or extreme punishment for apostasy under Sharia law Laws Criminalizing Apostasy.
However, I noticed this line of thinking was not only constricted to these countries. As I recall, a survey was done fairly recently in the UK to determine what Muslims thought of the apostasy death punishment concept. Over 30% of the younger generation though it was acceptable.

So, does anyone here think apostasy should be punishable?
Click to expand...

Orias said:
I don't believe in monotheism. I believe there are many Gods as there are individuals and each person is related to their own sacred energy whether they regard it as such or not.

But let's say for instance there is one true God. And this God says, there is no others before me. This God believes there are no other Gods, and it reveres itself as divine. Not only is this God an atheist, it's also an autotheist.

I like to use the term "I am" to represent how even Jesus was saying, be like me, so you can save yourself. Save yourself from what? There are thousands of beliefs, none of them stop death.

It's human to emulate divinity and project our emotions and fears into some immortal desire that understands everything. If you're familiar with the epic of Gilgamesh, even language was summarized to represent the immortalization of humans. Speaking of the Sumerians, what a strange group eh? I find the claim that modern religion claims roots to the diverse polytheistic world that came before it to be silly considering the holy lands have never been unified under a single banner or cause.

Anyways, monotheists and atheists are both outnumbered by polytheists and animists. I don't think there is any "true monotheism" that doesn't use the duality of "good and evil", because even if Satan isn't a God it's definitely the anti equivalent to God which causes the power struggle which actually empowers each other, perhaps there is a lesson in gaining power by giving power out.

Side note, interesting how religious ideas changed with the development of agriculture. That's also when we became more warlike and competitive. I'm sure there is a piece of scripture we can connect this too? With agriculture we became more numerous and started to become more violent. Something about a fruit me thinks. This one God put it there so you could become more like it. Why else would it do such a thing as to put an incredibly potent device within reach of our forebears? Because it would empower not only us, but the one who craves our affection and worship, this God that is one, but few will admit its really themselves.
Click to expand...
 
B

Baroodi

Active Member
charlie sc said:
I noticed there are quite a few Islamic users in these forum, so I was curious if any believed in punishment, like the death penalty, for apostasy? It seems like 25 Muslim countries support the death penalty or extreme punishment for apostasy under Sharia law Laws Criminalizing Apostasy.
However, I noticed this line of thinking was not only constricted to these countries. As I recall, a survey was done fairly recently in the UK to determine what Muslims thought of the apostasy death punishment concept. Over 30% of the younger generation though it was acceptable.

So, does anyone here think apostasy should be punishable?
Click to expand...


Not at all, Quran put it clear(Whoever wants to believe let him believe. And whoever wants to disbelieve let him to disbelieve) 18:29
(Say; O you infidels, I don't worship what you are worshiping. And You don't worship what I am worshiping) 109;1
(You have your religion and I have mine) 109;6
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
Baroodi said:
Not at all, Quran put it clear(Whoever wants to believe let him believe. And whoever wants to disbelieve let him to disbelieve) 18:29
(Say; O you infidels, I don't worship what you are worshiping. And You don't worship what I am worshiping) 109;1
(You have your religion and I have mine) 109;6
Click to expand...

I expect it is just like the bible, supplying verses for whatever one wants.
 
sooda

sooda

Veteran Member
Audie said:
I expect it is just like the bible, supplying verses for whatever one wants.
Click to expand...

Actually, Baroodi is correct. The Koran is very clear that no harm should come to People of the Book or anyone else, including pagans, if they don't make mischief in the land.
 
Audie

Audie

Veteran Member
sooda said:
And you think double parking is the equivalent of rape, murder and grand larceny? :confused:
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You dont have to go quite so far out of your way to
say something ridiculous about mr, do you?

Or maybe you dp, having set "tear fabric of
community" as adequate reason to kill
someone. Double parking,overdue library books,
all tear, you did say "in each case".

Its not me but you spoke of the equivalence.

Terrif religion and society, there. I think
I would prefer Venezuela.
 
B

Baroodi

Active Member
Quran beside the career of Prophet Muhammed are the main source of guidance in Islam. If any one did anything in the name of Islam he should be called terrorist, extremist, fanatic, imposter ....etc. Real Islam only exists for few years after the death of prophet Muhammed. After the Killing of the 3d Khalif, unrest and dictatorship spread spread all over Islamic regions to date. Reasons are diverse especially with the nasty politics of today. President Trump willingly can support a dictator as long as the dictator is pumping his treasury with billions of dollars.
 
England my lionheart

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
charlie sc said:
I noticed there are quite a few Islamic users in these forum, so I was curious if any believed in punishment, like the death penalty, for apostasy? It seems like 25 Muslim countries support the death penalty or extreme punishment for apostasy under Sharia law Laws Criminalizing Apostasy.
However, I noticed this line of thinking was not only constricted to these countries. As I recall, a survey was done fairly recently in the UK to determine what Muslims thought of the apostasy death punishment concept. Over 30% of the younger generation though it was acceptable.

So, does anyone here think apostasy should be punishable?
Click to expand...

Really it's just inexcusable,they're are other extreme punishments for sorcery adultery and theft,it's a very brave person who wants to leave Islam.
 
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