Are there any Muslim sects that believe the Qur'an was changed?

[Raban]

To add to the question, are there any Muslim sects which do not think the Qur'an is the total, perfect revelation from God/Allah, and may have errors in it, or have had parts added?

 

[Godobeyer]

for my opinion : All the muslims believes that the Quran is total and never edited (just one letter) , and have no error in it , or had no parts add after the death of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

 

[Shia Islam]

for my opinion : All the muslims believes that the Quran is total and never edited (just one letter) , and have no error in it , or had no parts add after the death of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh)

Exactly. Anyone who knows what Quran represent for Muslims will be certain that no one can change a letter of the Quran.

 

[Assad91]

Only extinct groups have ever believed such.

 

[Union]

What about the Shia and Sunni Sahih Hadith where Tahreef is reported ? I think I am going to be stampeded shortly :shout

 

[Sha'irullah]

I shall add to this discussion because I have been apart of a Muslim sect which DOES believe the Qur'an has been changed. Qur'aniyun who subscribe to Rashad Khalifa views or his disciple Edip Yuksel will specifically state that 2 ayah of the Qur'an are false and they come to this reasoning using a mathematical system of 19.

The specific ayah they reject can be found in Surat at-Tawbah and they are ayah 128 and 129

I was once going to challenge Edip Yuksel on these claims but by then I found no need to since I abandoned Islam altogether. I do consider the Qur'aniyun more pure in form then traditional Sunni Muslims though.

 

[Union]

I shall add to this discussion because I have been apart of a Muslim sect which DOES believe the Qur'an has been changed. Qur'aniyun who subscribe to Rashad Khalifa views or his disciple Edip Yuksel will specifically state that 2 ayah of the Qur'an are false and they come to this reasoning using a mathematical system of 19.

The specific ayah they reject can be found in Surat at-Tawbah and they are ayah 128 and 129

I was once going to challenge Edip Yuksel on these claims but by then I found no need to since I abandoned Islam altogether. I do consider the Qur'aniyun more pure in form then traditional Sunni Muslims though.

Dr. RK made a mistake in this issue . This is proven from his own books :

In this FIRST publication the verses 9: 128/129 of the Quran are NOT DELETED. Please note the word "God" (Allah) appears in verse 129.
________________________________________
On page 472 of his FIRST publication, the total count of the words "Allah" in the Qur'an is mentioned as 2698 (19x42=2698).

In his commentary below Rashad makes comments on verse 128,

In this SECOND Publication the Surah 9 ends with verse 127. The verses number 128 and 129 are expunged. In his commentary below Rashad Khalifa declares them as the false verses. Please read the hi-lited text:

RASHAD'S SECOND PUBLICATION (1989)
Title: QURAN: THE FINAL SCRIPTURE
ISBN 0-934894-57-1 Price U.S. $ 57.00

Surprisingly on page 627 below, in his SECOND publication, Rashad shows the total number of counts for the word "Allah" in the Qur'an to be the same as before i.e. 2698. ALTHOUGH RASHAD HAD DELETED TWO VERSES AND WITHIN THOSE TWO VERSES THERE WAS THE WORD "ALLAH" AS SEEN IN THE EARLIER SCANNED IMAGE, HE KEPT THE COUNT SAME AS BEFORE!!!

 

[Sha'irullah]

Dr. RK made a mistake in this issue . This is proven from his own books :


In this FIRST publication the verses 9: 128/129 of the Quran are NOT DELETED. Please note the word "God" (Allah) appears in verse 129.
________________________________________
On page 472 of his FIRST publication, the total count of the words "Allah" in the Qur'an is mentioned as 2698 (19x42=2698).

In his commentary below Rashad makes comments on verse 128,




In this SECOND Publication the Surah 9 ends with verse 127. The verses number 128 and 129 are expunged. In his commentary below Rashad Khalifa declares them as the false verses. Please read the hi-lited text:

RASHAD'S SECOND PUBLICATION (1989)
Title: QURAN: THE FINAL SCRIPTURE
ISBN 0-934894-57-1 Price U.S. $ 57.00


Surprisingly on page 627 below, in his SECOND publication, Rashad shows the total number of counts for the word "Allah" in the Qur'an to be the same as before i.e. 2698. ALTHOUGH RASHAD HAD DELETED TWO VERSES AND WITHIN THOSE TWO VERSES THERE WAS THE WORD "ALLAH" AS SEEN IN THE EARLIER SCANNED IMAGE, HE KEPT THE COUNT SAME AS BEFORE!!!

Obviously you must be one of the "Submitters". So you are saying Rashad did not make such a claim? Despite one of his closest disciples and all others continuing such claims?

If you wish to debate about this you can make a thread int he debate section

 

[Union]

Also verse 9:128-129 is supported by 19-code (though not much of importance to me ) :

[FONT=Times New Roman, Times]

الرحيم​

In the name of allah , the beneficent , the merciful​

[/FONT]

The verses 128 and 129 of surah 9 (At Taubah )​

The verse 128 and 129 of surah 9 have been rejected by part of 19ers by the Mathematical Miracle.
By the Mathematical Miracle I prove they were wrong.​

Updated: 21 Octobers 2000​

1. Supported by the name "ALLAH" and "MUHAMMAD"
Numerical Value of ALLAH
= Alif + Lam + Lam + Ha = 1 + 30 + 30 + 5 = 66
Combination = 130305
Numerical Value of MUHAMMAD = Mim + Ha + Mim + Dal = 40 + 8 + 40 + 4 = 92
Combination = 408404
The 2 last verses of surah 9 = 128 and 129
Put the combination of NV ALLAH before the numbers and the combination of NV MUHAMMAD after the numbers

130305 128 129 408404 = 19 x 6858164638389916.0000​

Put the NV ALLAH (66) and the NV MUHAMMAD (92)before the numbers followed by no of surah At Taubah (9) and the 2 verses

66 92 9 128 129 = 19 x 3522585691.0000​

2. Supported by Surah Al-Hijr (15) verse 9
Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim,

"Surely We have revealed the Reminder, and surely We are its Guardian"
Found in surah 15 verse 9 (coincidently, no 9 is no. surah At-Taubah)

159 128 129 isn't multiple 19. Put comb. of NV ALLAH and MUHAMMAD to support.​

130305 408404 159 128 129 = 19 x 6858179389692585691.0000​

3. Supported by surah Al-Baqarah (2) verse (2)
Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim,

"This Book, there is no doubt in it.In a guide to those who keep their duty"​

This word found in surah Al-Baqarah = surah no. 2 verse 2​

Put the number of surah before 128 129 and the verse after.​

2 128 129 2 = 19 x 1120068.0000​

Surah At-Taubah is surah no 9​

1120068 = 9 x 9 x 13828 ​

Special Fact !! IMPORTANT !!​

The 2 verses above is surah 15 : 9 , and surah 2 : 2. Put these numbers together.​

15 9 2 2 = 19 x 838.0000​

Now, since we are talking about these last 2 verses of surah 9, put the no. of surah and the 2 verse in between.​

15 9 9 128 129 2 2= 19 x 8416463838.0000​

ALLAH is the Guardian of Al-Qur'an since it was created, and no doubt in it.​

​

Surah At-Taubah

 

[Union]

Cont..

4. Supported by the 4 challenge verses
The 4 challenge verses were found in surahs:
Translated by: Yusuf Ali
2:23 Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim,

"And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce
a Sura like thereunto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true".
10:38 Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim,

"Or do they say, "He forged it"? say: "Bring then a Sura like unto it, and call (to your aid) anyone you can besides Allah, if it be ye speak the truth!"

11:13 Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim,

"Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah!- If ye speak the truth!"

52:33, 52:34 Bismillahirrahmanirrahiim,

"Or do they say, "He fabricated the (Message)"? Nay, they have no faith!
Let them then produce a recital like unto it,- If (it be) they speak the truth!"
Put those no. of surah and verses , followed by 9 and 128 129

2 23 10 38 11 13 52 33 52 34 9 128 129​

= 19 x 1174230584922281702585691.0000

5. Supported by the 4 attributes of ALLAH
4 attributes of ALLAH = 19, 99, 66, 6184.
19 - represent the UNLIMITED POWER OF ALLAH
99 - represent 99 names of ALLAH (Asma al Husna)
66 - represent Numerical Value name "ALLAH"
6184 - the combination of Numerical Value of WAHID (ONE) represent "ONENESS" of ALLAH

19 99 66 128 129 6184 = 19 x 105245330594536.0000​

​

6. Supported by the history of Muhammad saw
570 -- the year of the birth
40 -- the age of the first revelation
610 -- the year of the first revelation
52 -- the age of Hegira from Makkah to Madina
622 -- the year of Hegira from Makkah to Madina
62 -- the age of his death
632 -- the year of his death
Followed by NV MUHAMMAD (92) and the combination ( 408404 )

128129 570 40 610 52 622 62 632 92 408404 ​

= 19 x 674366160032132959277015389916.0000​

7. Supported by Al-Qur'an. fact 1
First surah of Al-qur'an = 7 verses ---- 1 7
Surah where we find the 2 verses is surah 9
The 2 verses -- 128, 129
Surah Muhammad -- surah 47;38 verses.
The last surah is surah 114;6 verses

1 7 9 128 129 47 38 114 6 = 19 x 942779628809534.0000​

8. Supported by Al-Qur'an fact 2
The last 2 verses of the first ( 1 ) surah = 6,7
The 2 verses of surah 9 = 128, 129
The 2 verses of the last surah (114) = 5,6

1 6 7 9128 129 114 5 6 = 19 x 8837516469024.0000​

​

9. Supported by the Numerical Value of "TAUBAH"
Surah 9 is surah "TAUBAH". Numerical Value of "TAUBAH"= Ta+Waw+Ba+Ta= 400+6+2+400=808
128 129 9 808 = 19 x 67436832.0000

10. Supported by surahs with INITIAL
These are surahs with INITIAL (muqaththo'at)
2, 3, 7, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 19, 20, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 36, 38, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 50, 68.

Isn't multiple 19.​

Put 128 and 129 before the numbers​

128 129 2 3 7 10 11 12 13 14 15 19 20 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 36 38 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 50 68

=19 x 67436440579532700744837908564647001648612547586443918182372.0000

 

[Union]

Obviously you must be one of the "Submitters". So you are saying Rashad did not make such a claim? Despite one of his closest disciples and all others continuing such claims?

If you wish to debate about this you can make a thread int he debate section

No , I didn't say that . What I have said is , RK claimed so but he was wrong as proven from his own books shown in scan above .

 

[Shia Islam]

What about the Shia and Sunni Sahih Hadith where Tahreef is reported ? I think I am going to be stampeded shortly :shout

-In shia Islam the only all-authentic book is the Quran.
-The Hadiths talking about Tahreef either non-authentic, or referring to Tahreef in the interpretation.
-Some of these Hadith are referring to those who claim that the opening sentence 'in the name of Allah the merciful the compassionate' (بسم الله الرحمن الرحي&#1605 is not part of the Quran (in most of the places it is mentioned).
-The Tahreef Hadiths are contradicted by huge number of authentic Hadiths saying that the Quran has not been changed or distorted.

 

[Union]

-In shia Islam the only all-authentic book is the Quran.
-The Hadiths talking about Tahreef either non-authentic, or referring to Tahreef in the interpretation.
-Some of these Hadith are referring to those who claim that the opening sentence 'in the name of Allah the merciful the compassionate' (بسم الله الرحمن الرحي&#1605 is not part of the Quran (in most of the places it is mentioned).
-The Tahreef Hadiths are contradicted by huge number of authentic Hadiths saying that the Quran has not been changed or distorted.

Sorry , I am not going to discuss this issue here at all , just to refresh your memory , the hadith of '17,000 verses in Qur'an' is/in 'Kafi' , authenticated by Baqir Majlisi and Hoor Amili as Sahih etc.

Again , I don't want to debate the Tahreef of Qur'an in Shia and Sunni Sahih Hadith here but if you feel to go for that then lets do it in right place and in right time .

I am feeling sleepy :sleep:

 

[Shia Islam]

Sorry , I am not going to discuss this issue here at all , just to refresh your memory , the hadith of '17,000 verses in Qur'an' is/in 'Kafi' , authenticated by Baqir Majlisi and Hoor Amili as Sahih etc.

Again , I don't want to debate the Tahreef of Qur'an in Shia and Sunni Sahih Hadith here but if you feel to go for that then lets do it in right place and in right time .

I am feeling sleepy :sleep:

Baqer Al Majlisi in his more-than-100 volumes hadith collection has collected may be the majority of the Hadiths, whether they are authentic or not...and Al-Hur al-Amili has done similar work, but only for the Hadiths related to the Islamic Law ...

There is nothing In Shia Islam as "authenticated by Baqir Majlisi and Hoor Amili as Sahih", as the authenticity of the Hadith is related to the scholastic view of the different scholars.

As you have talked about a Hadith, then please state it...
Feeling sleepy is not an excuse