Are the Noahide laws from the Torah, or the Talmud?

[Shem Ben Noah]

Sort of like what the talmud does. Interesting.

But I won't ignore the positive laws, unlike the Talmudic version. It would make sense that the Talmudic version would ignore that which does not serve it's purpose of compiling only capital punishment crimes.

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

Do we need to be told not to murder and steal or maybe just reminded?

It goes much deeper than that. The Noachide laws are a scam, they're not meant to serve the Gentile at all, but condemn him to death.

Here, an honest Rabbi explains the relationship between conversion, noachide law, and the messianic age:

 

[rosends]

But I won't ignore the positive laws, unlike the Talmudic version. It would make sense that the Talmudic version would ignore that which does not serve it's purpose of compiling only capital punishment crimes.

The talmud "ignores positive laws"? Then you haven't read the talmud. Once you stop pretending, and therefore don't make silly claims like this, you can start asking meaningful questions and learning something.

 

[Tumah]

The talmud "ignores positive laws"? Then you haven't read the talmud. Once you stop pretending, and therefore don't make silly claims like this, you can start asking meaningful questions and learning something.

I think he meant the positive Noahide Laws, as in "The postive Law to establish a system of courts". Or, "A non-Jew who studies the Torah is as great as the High Priest". The Talmud doesn't mention these things, unfortunately.

 

[rosends]

I think he meant the positive Noahide Laws, as in "The postive Law to establish a system of courts". Or, "A non-Jew who studies the Torah is as great as the High Priest". The Talmud doesn't mention these things, unfortunately.

I am so confused.

 

[Tumah]

I am so confused.

He things that the Talmud doesn't mention any positive commandments for Noahides. I sarcastically pointed out two of them mentioned in the Talmud.

 

[rosends]

He things that the Talmud doesn't mention any positive commandments for Noahides. I sarcastically pointed out two of them mentioned in the Talmud.

I understand that but his position keeps getting more and more muddled. It is still early morning around here and my brain must not be awake yet.

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

The talmud "ignores positive laws"? Then you haven't read the talmud. Once you stop pretending, and therefore don't make silly claims like this, you can start asking meaningful questions and learning something.

All seven Talmudic Laws of Noah are prohibitions. Not even the last is positive, it's actually more 'You shall not fail to establish courts of law' as seen when it's used to justify the murder of the entire city of Schechem.

No, it's time for Jews to stop pretending that the Talmudic Noachide Laws were created to be a benefit or a light to the Gentiles because that's not what they were made for.

 

[Tumah]

All seven Talmudic Laws of Noah are prohibitions. Not even the last is positive,

(7) The Prohibition of Adjudication
As mentioned earlier, the Talmud states that the seven Laws are passive Laws. According to that, this Law actually has two parts to it: (passively) to not distort justice and (actively) to judge.

The major requirement of this Law is for every district to set up a court where people are judged for their crimes. According to some opinions, that's why Simon and Levi killed the entire Shechem when it was only Hamor that kidnapped her: they didn't sit in judgement on him.

it's actually more 'You shall not fail to establish courts of law' as seen when it's used to justify the murder of the entire city of Schechem.

You shall not fail to lay phylacteries.
You shall not fail to put fringes on your garments.
You shall not fail to remember the Sabbath.
You shall not fail to eat the Paschal offering.
You shall not fail to bring the celebratory offering.

You can rephrase any positive Law into a negative Law. That doesn't make it a negative commandment.

For that matter, what you are even suggesting is ludicrous. The Noahide Laws to not steal, not murder, etc are somehow bad for non-Jews and were made to condemn them? If that were the case, you would have more laws than we do and your laws wouldn't be such basic ones that are already illegal in some way. In fact the Talmud even explicitly states, "there is nothing that is permitted to a Jew and prohibited to a non-Jew." In other words, everything that you can't do, we can't do (and more besides).

You either have so little knowledge about what Noahidism is about or your feigning ignorance in order to fabricate baseless accusations. There are actually more positive commandments for Noahides to keep than there are negative commandments. Almost all the positive commandments that the average Jew can keep are also available for the non-Jew to keep. The difference is that you are not forced to keep them, while we are.

Studying Torah
As mentioned above, while it is prohibited for non-Jews to study Torah, it is a positive commandment for non-Jews to study the parts of the Torah that relate to them, ie. the Noahide Laws. The Talmud teaches that not only is it a positive commandment, one who does so is as great as the Jewish High Priest, meaning to say, as important as the service the High Priest (the holiest man) does when he enters the Holy of Holies (the holiest place) on the Day of Atonement (the holiest day).

No, it's time for Jews to stop pretending that the Talmudic Noachide Laws were created to be a benefit or a light to the Gentiles because that's a lie.

I would have phrased it slightly differently. "Its time to stop reinterpreting Jewish concepts in a negative light because you have an ax to grind." That would be more appropriate here.

 

[roger1440]

The Talmud is not only a commentary on the Torah. I'm not even sure commentary would be the correct word as most of what it does isn't explanation but derivation. And even that only represents - I don't know, maybe half to two thirds of the Talmud.

Is all the Talmud derived from the Torah?

 

[Tumah]

Is all the Talmud derived from the Torah?

Not at all.

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

...
You can rephrase any positive Law into a negative Law. That doesn't make it a negative commandment.

What positive commandment carries the death penalty for failure to carry them out?

I would have phrased it slightly differently. "Its time to stop reinterpreting Jewish concepts in a negative light because you have an ax to grind." That would be more appropriate here.

It is not a negative light. The Talmudic Noachide laws have an important role in judging gentiles
living in the land of Israel when you have a king. As Rabbi Asher explains in the vid I linked above.

To say it's for the benefit of the gentiles tho is incorrect, as it is incomplete.

 

[Tumah]

What positive commandment carries the death penalty for failure to carry them out?

I think you should read what I actually wrote. I didn't say the Law for Adjudication isn't negative. I said it contains both a positive and negative element.
As far as I know, unlike Jews, non-Jews are not punished for not performing a positive commandment.

It is not a negative light. The Talmudic Noachide laws have an important role in judging gentiles
living in the land of Israel when you have a king.

What in the world are you talking about? The Noahide Laws are not for Israel, they're for non-Jews. You're confusing a Noahide with a Ger Toshav. They're not the same.

As Rabbi Asher explains in the vid I linked above.

Mr. Asher Mezza is by no means an accepted rabbi. He has his own unique opinions that nobody cares about.

To say it's for the benefit of the gentiles tho is incorrect, as it is incomplete.

To say that it isn't for the benefit of the gentiles tho is incorrect as it is complete.

You haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary. Although you have made quite a number of -so far- baseless claims to the effect.

 

[Shem Ben Noah]

...
You haven't demonstrated anything to the contrary. Although you have made quite a number of -so far- baseless claims to the effect.

Still working on it.


It will have benefit and not beheading as primary purpose.

.. I just realized.... 'ax to grind' ...

 

[Tumah]

Still working on it.


It will have benefit and not beheading as primary purpose.

I don't even