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Featured Are the Noahide laws from the Torah, or the Talmud?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Desert Snake, Oct 28, 2016.

?
  1. Noahide laws would exist without the Talmud

    66.7%
  2. Noahidism if from the Talmud, not the Torah

    33.3%
  3. Noahide laws wouldn't exist without the Talmud

    33.3%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    /Are the Noah laws from Torah, or the Talmud? Would the Noahide laws exist without the Talmud?

    From another thread, /
    @Tumah
    @Shem Ben Noah
     
  2. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    I have no problem admitting that they come from the Torah. Just bring the appropriate verses.
     
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  3. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Is that a riddle? The question is straight forward,
     
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  4. Flankerl

    Flankerl Well-Known Member

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    "You may select up to 2 choices..."


    [x] Noahide laws would exist without the Talmud
    [_] Noahidism if from the Talmud, not the Torah
    [x] Noahide laws wouldn't exist without the Talmud

    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Shem Ben Noah

    Shem Ben Noah INACTIVE

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    Both, but the Talmud is irrelevant. If it's not in the Torah it's fiction, fable, and farce.

    Interestingly, I'm in the process of creating my OWN list, based on events in the Torah.
     
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  6. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Great, seems interesting.
     
  7. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    • The way you had phrased the question I cannot answer. I’ll put my two cents in anyway. According to Judaism the Noahide Laws always existed. Murder was never permitted. Stealing was never permitted and so on. The Torah has always been. Creation came after. The Talmud is commentary on the Torah.
     
  8. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    The first voting option seems to match what you wrote. Not sure what is confusing about the original question.
     
  9. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Not necessarily. The Talmud is commentary on the Torah. It explains the Torah. If an explanation has always been true, then the explanation is timeless.
     
  10. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    The voting options allow for that opinion as well.
     
  11. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    They all work together. Is that better?
     
  12. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake Veteran Member

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    Better than your explanation? You can vote for two options
     
  13. Shem Ben Noah

    Shem Ben Noah INACTIVE

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    SOME of it is commentary, much is tales and trash.

    One must be aware of reasons behind things.

    Take the Talmud's 'Noahide laws' for example. These were NOT compiled to assist or inform gentiles of what God expects of them, but rather as a legal system to condemn (& behead) gentiles living in their land when they're in power. That's why there's only one punishment (beheading), NO positive laws - only negative ones, and obvious shortcomings and omissions.

    Their reason is NOT to better mankind or anything like that, which is how they're being sold today.
     
    #13 Shem Ben Noah, Oct 31, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2016
  14. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    The Talmud is not only a commentary on the Torah. I'm not even sure commentary would be the correct word as most of what it does isn't explanation but derivation. And even that only represents - I don't know, maybe half to two thirds of the Talmud.

    In the case of the Noahide Laws, the Talmud doesn't derive them from the Torah. They had a tradition about the Noahide Laws and then they found verses to create an Asmachta. That's why personally I voted that without the Talmud there would be no Noahide Laws today. Who remembered them without the Talmud? If there would be no Talmud, who would have told you about them?

    Its true that we believe the Torah preceded the Creation (but has not always been). But it wasn't sent down until Mt. Sinai. The Noahide Laws were already around for 26 generations at that point since Adam. So the Noahide Laws are not from the Torah anymore than saying your shoes are from the Torah.
     
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  15. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    So, your own fiction, fable and farce. Seems legit.
     
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  16. Shem Ben Noah

    Shem Ben Noah INACTIVE

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    As I said, based on events in Torah. Source for any derived law quoted & explained. Very legit, indeed.
     
  17. psychoslice

    psychoslice Veteran Member

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    From the Torah of course.
     
  18. rosends

    rosends Well-Known Member

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    Sort of like what the talmud does. Interesting.
     
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  19. roger1440

    roger1440 I do stuff

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    Do we need to be told not to murder and steal or maybe just reminded?
     
  20. Tumah

    Tumah Veteran Member

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    1. Look at history and then ask that.
    2. There's a difference between not murdering and not murdering because G-d said not to.
    3. There two pertaining to G-d are apparently not as obvious as the other five.
     
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