Are Only the Enlightened Saved?

[wizanda]

Daniel 12:3 Those who are wise will shine as the brightness of the expanse. Those who turn many to righteousness will shine as the stars forever and ever.

Luke 11:34-36 The lamp of the body is the eye. Therefore when your eye is good, your whole body is also full of light; but when it is evil, your body also is full of darkness. (35) Therefore see whether the light that is in you isn’t darkness. (36) If therefore your whole body is full of light, having no part dark, it will be wholly full of light, as when the lamp with its bright shining gives you light.”

Matthew 25:1-13 “Then the Kingdom of Heaven will be like ten virgins, who took their lamps, and went out to meet the bridegroom. (2) Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. (3) Those who were foolish, when they took their lamps, took no oil with them, (4) but the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. (5) Now while the bridegroom delayed, they all slumbered and slept. (6) But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Behold! The bridegroom is coming! Come out to meet him!’ (7) Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. (8) The foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ (9) But the wise answered, saying, ‘What if there isn’t enough for us and you? You go rather to those who sell, and buy for yourselves.’ (10) While they went away to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. (11) Afterward the other virgins also came, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us.’ (12) But he answered, ‘Most certainly I tell you, I don’t know you.’ (13) Watch therefore, for you don’t know the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.

Just a start to some of the verses within the Bible, indicating that those enlightened are the ones deemed worthy to be in the Messianic age...

The question then is, is it the same enlightenment within the different beliefs?

By following the Dharma (righteousness), by removing the shrouds of delusion within reality, to see clearly beyond just our linear timeline, and recognize your own character before infinite time.

Some of the prophets understood, and speak from that level, as there is no reason for them adding up so succinctly across time.

 

[George-ananda]

Are Only the Enlightened Saved?

Saved from what? I think more modern thinkers see 'enlightenment' as a spectrum of levels. Most are in the growing stage and make mistakes.

(this is from the perspective of one believing in and afterlife period and reincarnation)

 

[Valjean]

Christian salvation and dharmic enlightenment are quite different things. Not really comparable.

 

[Vinayaka]

In most versions of Hinduism, everyone gets moksha, so it's not who, but when. Our God is fair.

 

[psychoslice]

For me personally those who are Enlightened see all as Enlightened, or as One in Consciousness, its only because many haven't awakened from their slumber hypnotized by the ego, but in truth those who are still asleep, are as much as Consciousness as those who are Enlightened, for they also are not the mind body organism, even though they believe they are.

 

[Windwalker]

For me personally those who are Enlightened see all as Enlightened, or as One in Consciousness, its only because many haven't awakened from their slumber hypnotized by the ego, but in truth those who are still asleep, are as much as Consciousness as those who are Enlightened, for they also are not the mind body organism, even though they believe they are.

A way I like to put it is that everyone is already Enlightened, but they're just not actually enlightened to the fact of it yet.

 

[psychoslice]

A way I like to put it is that everyone is already Enlightened, but they're just not actually enlightened to the fact of it yet.

That's it, and if you don't mind I'll use that phrase from now on.

 

[Acim]

All responses so far make sense to me, and most responses are how I understand things. That it's not a matter of Who (for all are saved) but when (all are enlightened to the fact that we are already enlightened/saved).

I see it as 'saved from conceptions or convictions of separation from God.'

I see what I just wrote up as intellectual type explanation that would seemingly rule out a whole bunch of people (who don't intellectually get this), but I think, or rather know, that it isn't based on intellectual understandings of the terms. I would say it is certainly not based on scientific understandings, but perhaps that depends on what science means/must mean. I see (modern) science as behind the fact(s) on this matter, playing catchup - at best. For most part, I don't think much of science claims to care, or cares about as much as say a world class bridge player, or soccer player might care.

If the convictions are such that one truly believes, and has zero doubt (via faith) that their experience is a world where God is not found, and all beings are inherently separate from each other, then I see that as unenlightened. I feel here in this world, or planet earth, that is clearly, or historically, the norm. I don't think anything, outside of consciousness is open to salvation - thus all things a materialists thinks exists, is not a concern for salvation.

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Just a start to some of the verses within the Bible, indicating that those enlightened are the ones deemed worthy to be in the Messianic age...

The question then is, is it the same enlightenment within the different beliefs?

By following the Dharma (righteousness), by removing the shrouds of delusion within reality, to see clearly beyond just our linear timeline, and recognize your own character before infinite time.

Some of the prophets understood, and speak from that level, as there is no reason for them adding up so succinctly across time.

Its like God being ten steps ahead of you and sudden you are aware can be like a shock of God that it can happen outside of yourself and be consciousness of it outside of time. No computer no appearances holograms even you cant blame it on big brother games. That someone was listening and heard, before hand.
Lots of people talk to God some not even aware. Like some say I pray and some like myself don't make it a schedule but pray. Even someone with no ideals of religion. For example some people consciousness leads them there but some are unaware.
On a human level someone leading someone even if this person says they are of god lover friend to hurt their consciousness mind to bring them to a point of guilt or can have a lower affect, you realize the person was far head (maybe even theirs) and they made conscious moves outside to put someone in a harm. (they may have been blind as well)

 

[meghanwaterlillies]

Its like God being ten steps ahead of you and sudden you are aware can be like a shock of God that it can happen outside of yourself and be consciousness of it outside of time. No computer no appearances holograms even you cant blame it on big brother games. That someone was listening and heard, before hand.
Lots of people talk to God some not even aware. Like some say I pray and some like myself don't make it a schedule but pray. Even someone with no ideals of religion. For example some people consciousness leads them there but some are unaware.
On a human level someone leading someone even if this person says they are of god lover friend to hurt their consciousness mind to bring them to a point of guilt or can have a lower affect, you realize the person was far head (maybe even theirs) and they made conscious moves outside to put someone in a harm. (they may have been blind as well)

Which can also means that some people that seem unaware or not bright can possibly be talking to God.
or entertaining "angels" unaware.

 

[psychoslice]

I see so called Enlightenment beyond all religions, no matter which one, yes there are a few that has the gunpowder affect to ignite Enlightenment, but most are like wet wood, they only keep you in the story, never allowing you to go beyond that story. These religions or belief systems that only give you wet wood, are afraid to think for themselves, or to allow you to adventure beyond the scriptures or stories, in my own experience in Consciousness that only happened when I dropped all beliefs, all was reveled, I realized that we are all One with the Cosmos, or Consciousness, or that ugly word god.

Yes we are all saved, there is no one except ourselves that keep us from being so called saved, in fact so called belief in Saviors of whatever belief system only keeps us from being saved. We shove them up on a pedestal, so high that we believe we can never reach them, no, we need to knock them of their pedestal, and grow up spiritually, and realize that we are as they are............yes, we are already there.

 

[arthra]

For Baha'is salvation and enlightenment are pretty much the same:

"....that which is the cause of everlasting life, eternal honor, universal enlightenment, real salvation and prosperity is, first of all, the knowledge of God."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 300

 

[psychoslice]

For Baha'is salvation and enlightenment are pretty much the same:

"....that which is the cause of everlasting life, eternal honor, universal enlightenment, real salvation and prosperity is, first of all, the knowledge of God."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 300

Yes I like that, but what do you mean by the knowledge of God ?.

 

[arthra]

Yes I like that, but what do you mean by the knowledge of God ?.

Thanks for your reply! I believe we can know God through His Prophets and Messengers...

But Abdul-Baha answered your question I would humbly suggest in the following words:

"It is known that the knowledge of God is beyond all knowledge, and it is the greatest glory of the human world. For in the existing knowledge of the reality of things there is material advantage, and through it outward civilization progresses; but the knowledge of God is the cause of spiritual progress and attraction, and through it the perception of truth, the exaltation of humanity, divine civilization, rightness of morals and illumination are obtained."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 299

 

[psychoslice]

Thanks for your reply! I believe we can know God through His Prophets and Messengers...

But Abdul-Baha answered your question I would humbly suggest in the following words:

"It is known that the knowledge of God is beyond all knowledge, and it is the greatest glory of the human world. For in the existing knowledge of the reality of things there is material advantage, and through it outward civilization progresses; but the knowledge of God is the cause of spiritual progress and attraction, and through it the perception of truth, the exaltation of humanity, divine civilization, rightness of morals and illumination are obtained."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 299

Thank you for those beautiful words, just what I expected from you, you are so fortunate to have that knowledge.

 

[wizanda]

Saved from what?

The Messianic age is after Mahapralaya; thus saved in terms of accepted to be One with God....Those who are not capable, are not included.

Christian salvation and dharmic enlightenment are quite different things. Not really comparable.

Thankfully i wouldn't try to compare them; Christians aren't saved anyways, they're the hypocrites, and workers of iniquity according to the Biblical text.

As for being Dharmic and Righteousness; these are nearly matching descriptors, based on both their individual contexts.

In most versions of Hinduism, everyone gets moksha, so it's not who, but when. Our God is fair.

Are you speaking for everyone again....

If we read the Kalki Purana not everyone is saved, those that are adharmic are to be removed, and only those who attained enlightenment shall remain after the end of Kali Yuga, as Satya Yuga is an age of Godliness/Enlightenment.

Brahman/CPU is fair; the Avatars/Elohim have established the removal of who isn't worthy.

For me personally those who are Enlightened see all as Enlightened, or as One in Consciousness

This is a whole other topic as such, yet still pertaining, where i beg to differ on Advita/'I Am' philosophy...

Yeshua Biblically warned us not to go after those who say "I Am", claiming to be him; then the made up gospel of John purposefully does this, making him into being god.

We're hardly one in consciousness with everyone, we're in a place near Hell, with lots of demons running around...

When i get near some people, it is shocking how low their conscious awareness is....

So yes we can feel everyone's consciousness when we're enlightened; yet we should also be aware we're within the Maya (place of delusional separatists).

Think saying everyone is capable of enlightenment, moksha, Nirvana slightly underestimates what is required to attain it, and as such isn't fair to make everyone have to reach for something unattainable....

Love everyone for who they are; not who we want them 'all' to be.

 

[Zigzangle]

Those who believe in the 'saved' dogma seemed far from enlightened, in my experience!

 

[wizanda]

Those who believe in the 'saved' dogma seemed far from enlightened, in my experience!

I'd agree people who believe in the dogma; yet don't understand the doctrine in someway, are most of us in this world.....

Yet that doesn't mean we can't one day remove the veils of illusion, and see things for what they actually mean.

 

[psychoslice]

I'd agree people who believe in the dogma; yet don't understand the doctrine in someway, are most of us in this world.....

Yet that doesn't mean we can't one day remove the veils of illusion, and see things for what they actually mean.

Yes, but why wait till one day, lets be intelligent right here and now.

 

[wizanda]

Yes, but why wait till one day, lets be intelligent right here and now.

Everyone learns at different speeds, and some don't ever see things for how they truly are...

Even if you hand feed some people how things work, they will still stick with their own simple understanding.

It is like saying to the deer, "you must climb trees now".