Are Christians Suppose to Strive to be Like Jesus?

[roger1440]

Nope the whole NT is made up. No historical proof from the 1st century.

Not being able to prove the New Testament does not disprove it. There is no way possible I can prove to you without a shadow of doubt I had just run out of toilet paper. That does not prove it did not happen, does it?

 

[oldbadger]

if Jesus was as 'torah obedient' as you claim, then why didnt he condemn the women who was menstruating in a crowd of people?

The law stated that a women menstruating must not come into any assembly but keep away....yet this women entered a crowded place and touched Jesus.
Her condition made her ceremonially unclean, so she should not have been there. (Leviticus 15:25-27)

She was not menstruating. She was permanently bleeding. This was no cyclic condition, but a permanent illness or sickness. The average person would not have known the difference, but Yeshus clearly did.

 

[ChristineES]

Would you accept the idea that we all become sinners? There is a difference.

May I add to this?

I think it has a lot to do that we are born of flesh. We need to eat, but if we overeat, we would be doing something unhealthy- a sin. It is natural to get angry, but sometimes, uncontrolled anger may cause us to do something in reaction- harming or killing someone in extreme cases- a sin. We can have addictions of many different kinds, including some things that we don't even need, hurting ourselves and others in the process.- a sin.

I don't believe in Original Sin but I do believe we are slaves to our own bodies.

 

[roger1440]

Being clean or unclean is not the focal point of the story. For this reason the details are left out, Matthew’s version of the healing is leading up to the conclusion. Faith heals.


4 Jesus replied, ‘Go back and report to John what you hear and see: 5 the blind receive sight, the lame walk, those who have leprosy[a] are cleansed, the deaf hear, the dead are raised, and the good news is proclaimed to the poor. 6 Blessed is anyone who does not stumble on account of me.’ (Matthew 11:4-6)


The point the author of Mathew is making is that Jesus fulfills what the prophet Isaiah had written centuries earlier.


4 say to those with fearful, ‘Be strong, do not fear; your God will come, he will come with vengeance; with divine retribution he will come to save you.’
5 Then will the eyes of the blind be opened and the ears of the deaf unstopped.
6 Then will the lame leap like a deer and the mute tongue shout for joy. Water will gush forth in the wilderness and streams in the desert. (Isaiah 35:4-6)

 

[BSM1]

The ways I try to be like Jesus:

1. Hang out with lots of women.
2. Drink lots of wine and/or other spirits.
3. Chill with your homies on a regular basis.
4. Develop spiritually through meditation and other such practices.
5. Treat all people with respect regardless of their title or position within society as long as they treat you with respect in return.
6. Most importantly of all... FIGHT THE MAN.

Finally! Someone gets it.

 

[nazz]

It's most likely better for everyone if a Christian strives to be like Jesus, than strives to be a Christian like Pat Robertson.

Amen

 

[nazz]

Stay on topic people.


The next thing I want to know is: If it's the case that one should try to be like Jesus, why isn't anyone actually trying to be like Jesus, i.e. copy his behaviors?

The fact that you think nobody is discourages me from further interaction with you.

 

[Shermana]

the account says that Jesus was touched by her as he was on his way to heal a sick girl. After the encounter with the woman, he continued unabated on his way to the home of the sick girl and went into their home. So he didnt wash himself, or seclude himself until sunset, as the law required.
Nor did he condemn the woman for violating the mosaic law which forbid her to be in amongst a crowd of people. She was breaking the law simply by being there amongst them.

Why didnt Jesus condemn her?

And more importantly, why did God heal her knowing that she was deliberately breaking his law?

You are so sure that God demands absolute strict adherence to the mosaic law, yet he gave this woman a blessing while she was actively breaking his law. Are you sure you have the right idea about our requirement to adhere to every mosaic law????

You have no way of proving that he went straight to the sick girl's house without bathing. You're simply assuming that because the text says he didn't take time to bathe and wait until sunset, that he didn't. The text never says Jesus bathed, does this mean Jesus never bathed? By your logic, yes.

You ignored what I said about Jesus wearing a fringe as well. And fasting on Yom Kippur. Does the text have to say everything Jesus said?

You can't just assume the only things that happened were what the text says.

It says that he bade no one to follow him except Peter and James and John. Why would he do that? Maybe because he was going to his bathing spot perhaps and only wanted his most trusted attendants?

And if Jesus broke the Law, NO SANE JEW WOULD FOLLOW HIM AS MESSIAH.

Your logic says that Jesus was a hypocrite. He said not one iota of the Law would ever be made void. He said anyone who teaches to break the least of the commandments will be called the least in the Kingdom. Get it through your skull already!

As for Jesus not condemning the woman, by all means, please quote where it says she can't be out and about. It just says that anyone who touches anywhere she's been has to be washed unless I'm forgetting something.

 

[Pegg]

She was not menstruating. She was permanently bleeding. This was no cyclic condition, but a permanent illness or sickness. The average person would not have known the difference, but Yeshus clearly did.

the law stated that 'any' discharge required that a the person keep away from others.

“‘As for a woman, in case the running discharge of her blood should be flowing many days when it is not the regular time of her menstrual impurity, or in case she should have a flow longer than her menstrual impurity, all the days of her unclean running discharge will prove as in the days of her menstrual impurity. She is unclean.

Leviticus 15:22 And anyone touching any article upon which she was sitting should wash his garments, and he must bathe in water and be unclean until the evening

 

[Pegg]

You have no way of proving that he went straight to the sick girl's house without bathing. You're simply assuming that because the text says he didn't take time to bathe and wait until sunset, that he didn't. The text never says Jesus bathed, does this mean Jesus never bathed? By your logic, yes.

You ignored what I said about Jesus wearing a fringe as well. And fasting on Yom Kippur. Does the text have to say everything Jesus said?

You can't just assume the only things that happened were what the text says.

It says that he bade no one to follow him except Peter and James and John. Why would he do that? Maybe because he was going to his bathing spot perhaps and only wanted his most trusted attendants?

And if Jesus broke the Law, NO SANE JEW WOULD FOLLOW HIM AS MESSIAH.

Your logic says that Jesus was a hypocrite. He said not one iota of the Law would ever be made void. He said anyone who teaches to break the least of the commandments will be called the least in the Kingdom. Get it through your skull already!

As for Jesus not condemning the woman, by all means, please quote where it says she can't be out and about. It just says that anyone who touches anywhere she's been has to be washed unless I'm forgetting something.

so you still can't answer the question as to why Jesus did not condemn her for violating the mosaic law?

Or why God would bless a woman who was violating the mosaic law???

Im not going into other areas until you can at least try and offer some explanation for what happened in this account.

 

[F0uad]

I wish Christians would strive to be like Jesus(pbuh) just imagine in what kind of world we would be living now.

 

[Shermana]

so you still can't answer the question as to why Jesus did not condemn her for violating the mosaic law?

Or why God would bless a woman who was violating the mosaic law???

Im not going into other areas until you can at least try and offer some explanation for what happened in this account.

So you mean you totally avoided my answer and doubled down on your initial assertion which you apparently dodged and avoided when I asked you to provide the scriptural verse for your claim. You're "not going into other areas"? You mean not going into backing up your own erroneous claim.

Dishonesty will get you nowhere Pegg.

Let's try this again.

I said:

As for Jesus not condemning the woman, by all means, please quote where it says she can't be out and about. It just says that anyone who touches anywhere she's been has to be washed unless I'm forgetting something.

So please by all means quote what I'm forgetting. Because in your quote to old badger I see nothing about a permanent illness of bleeding requiring her to be put away permanently and not being out and about. Because of course you're not dodging from that or anything. Of course not. You wouldn't do that. Of course you are totally able to point out the verse in Leviticus 15 where it says she cannot be out and about. It doesn't just merely say that everything she touches will cause others to be made unclean or anything, it SPECIFICALLY says she has to be outside the camp. Of course.

Now answer my question or keep silent. Or admit you are wrong.

Because you are wrong.

 

[Slapstick]

The ways I try to be like Jesus:

1. Hang out with lots of women.
2. Drink lots of wine and/or other spirits.
3. Chill with your homies on a regular basis.
4. Develop spiritually through meditation and other such practices.
5. Treat all people with respect regardless of their title or position within society as long as they treat you with respect in return.
6. Most importantly of all... FIGHT THE MAN.

Yup, sounds like the teachings of Jesus alright.

 

[roger1440]

No plan is given by any God, only religions and they cant get it correct.

Please lay out God's plan in your own words without using any religious quotes.

God’s plan for us is to be reunited with God. To embrace God we must release everything within our grasp. It is then our work is finished and we can rest. The two then become one. I’m deliberately using metaphors. It’s the only way it can be expressed.

 

[Pegg]

So you mean you totally avoided my answer and doubled down on your initial assertion which you apparently dodged and avoided when I asked you to provide the scriptural verse for your claim. You're "not going into other areas"? You mean not going into backing up your own erroneous claim.

Dishonesty will get you nowhere Pegg.

Let's try this again.

I said:



So please by all means quote what I'm forgetting. Because in your quote to old badger I see nothing about a permanent illness of bleeding requiring her to be put away permanently and not being out and about. Because of course you're not dodging from that or anything. Of course not. You wouldn't do that. Of course you are totally able to point out the verse in Leviticus 15 where it says she cannot be out and about. It doesn't just merely say that everything she touches will cause others to be made unclean or anything, it SPECIFICALLY says she has to be outside the camp. Of course.

Now answer my question or keep silent. Or admit you are wrong.

Because you are wrong.

Numbers 5:3 Jehovah spoke further to Moses, saying: 2 “Command the Israelites to send out of the camp every leprous person+ and everyone having a discharge+ and everyone unclean by a dead person.*+ 3 Whether a male or a female, you should send them out. You should send them outside the camp, so that they may not contaminate+ the camps of those in whose midst I am dwelling.”*+ 4 Therefore, the Israelites did so and sent them outside the camp. Just as Jehovah told Moses, so the Israelites did.

Leviticus 15:11*And anyone whom the one having a running discharge might touch when he has not rinsed his hands in water must then wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening.

Leviticus 15:25*“‘As for a woman, in case the running discharge of her blood should be flowing many days when it is not the regular time of her menstrual impurity, or in case she should have a flow longer than her menstrual impurity, all the days of her unclean running discharge will prove as in the days of her menstrual impurity. She is unclean. 26*Any bed upon which she may lie any of the days of her running discharge will become for her as the bed of her menstrual impurity, and any article upon which she may sit will become unclean like the uncleanness of her menstrual impurity. 27*And anyone touching them will be unclean, and he must wash his garments and bathe in water and be unclean until the evening.
31*“‘And YOU must keep the sons of Israel separate from their uncleanness, that they may not die in their uncleanness for their defiling of my tabernacle, which is in their midst.
32*“‘This is the law about the man having a running discharge and the man from whom an emission of semen may go out so that he becomes unclean by it; 33*and the menstruating woman in her uncleanness, and anyone who has a flow of his running discharge, whether a male or a female..."



Running discharges made a person unclean according to the law. If a person was in an unclean state, they were not permitted into the assembly....meaning they were not permitted to congregate with the people. They had to remain isolated in their homes. They were not permitted to enter the temple or its surrounding areas, soldiers who were unclean were not permitted to go out to war, priests who were unclean were not permitted to perform sacred duties and new mothers were not permitted into the temple until after the 'time of purification' and leprous persons had to keep themselves fully covered and cry out 'unclean' so that people would not come too close to them and touch them.

The woman in the account was unclean. The law stipulated that anyone touching her would likewise be unclean until the evening....and she should have been keeping herself away from people, not in amongst them.

So why wasnt she condemned by Jesus?
And why was she blessed by God?

 

[Shermana]

Let me break it down.

The woman only has to be set apart 7 days. That's it. If it lasts longer than that, it doesn't say she has to be set apart any longer. This woman's problem was an irregular, permanent problem. It would be reasonable for her to be out and about seeking medical attention especially if no one else could do it for her. Just because she is unclean doesn't mean she has to stay away until it's gone. Though she may want to be careful to not touch anything on the way. This would prevent her from lying on her husband's bed. It would prevent her from touching anyone. But I don't see where it says she must continue to be set apart altogether.

In your logic, she's just supposed to wait outside and die.

http://www.lightofmashiach.org/women/niddah.html

And let me break it down further.

If Jesus violated Torah, that means he would have SINNED.

 

[Shermana]

Now also note that it says his "Power was gone from him". What does that mean?

Was Jesus made unclean? Perhaps so. Which indicates he would have gone to bathe himself and wait until sundown until his power had regained.

Now this logic can also be applied to the lepers who Jesus healed too. The leper was in an area where there was a crowd.

Now hold on here...

It says "As Jesus was on his way".

As Jesus was on his way, the crowds almost crushed him. 43And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years,c but no one could heal her. 44She came up behind him and touched the edge of his cloak, and immediately her bleeding stopped.

So where was Jesus when this happened? Was Jesus in the city? Was Jesus already out in the fields away from the general population? I think so.

Well that's that then.

 

[Pegg]

Let me break it down.

The woman only has to be set apart 7 days. That's it. If it lasts longer than that, it doesn't say she has to be set apart any longer. This woman's problem was an irregular, permanent problem. It would be reasonable for her to be out and about seeking medical attention especially if no one else could do it for her. Just because she is unclean doesn't mean she has to stay away until it's gone. Though she may want to be careful to not touch anything on the way. This would prevent her from lying on her husband's bed. It would prevent her from touching anyone. But I don't see where it says she must continue to be set apart altogether.

In your logic, she's just supposed to wait outside and die.

About Niddah (Messianic Judaism)

And let me break it down further.

If Jesus violated Torah, that means he would have SINNED.

the law says she was unclean.... like pig meat is unclean. You dont touch it, right?

 

[Shermana]

Also, when did this event take place exactly?

According to Matthew 9, this happened right after Jesus was having dinner with his disciples and the Tax collectors and sinners.

In Luke 8 it happened while he was "on his way" after "he returned".

In Mark 5, it's right after Jesus crosses the lake in the boat and gets out.

Discrepancy?

 

[Pegg]

Also, when did this event take place exactly?

According to Matthew 9, this happened right after Jesus was having dinner with his disciples and the Tax collectors and sinners.

In Luke 8 it happened while he was "on his way" after "he returned".

In Mark 5, it's right after Jesus crosses the lake in the boat and gets out.

Discrepancy?

thats not the issue. The issue is that both accounts show a woman in an unclean state mingling among people and touching Jesus and God showing her mercy while she was wilfully breaking the mosaic law

I just would like a reasonable answer as to why she wasnt held to account for her lack of obedience?