Are atheists irrational?

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Again, you have it as "a communication from God" and I have "a communication with God", but yes. Pay attention, 007!

Instead of tithing, why not simply ask God for revelation, but give Him a time limit? I meet a lot of people who fail to pray about a time like "soon" and don't hear from God until years later.

You already did that, remember? You failed.

 

[BilliardsBall]

Lots of kids have communications with invisible beings, they're called imaginary friends. Plenty of adults have communications with invisible beings, and those adults are in mental wards or taking medication for their mental issues.

Since well over 90% of people talk to God, how does it feel to have we inmates running the world asylum?

 

[BilliardsBall]

You already did that, remember? You failed.

No, I said you ask God for revelation. I asked Him, and when He set a place and time, you failed to show up!

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, I said you ask God for revelation. I asked Him, and when He set a place and time, you failed to show up!

On the off chance that you just misremembered what you said and you aren't deliberately misrepresenting it, here's what you said:

God will speak to you at 8 PM tomorrow, EDT.

Thanks,

No qualifiers, no "you need to ask," no "you need to be in a specific place," no "you need to be listening." Just "God will speak to you."

But if you want to keep misrepresenting yourself, go ahead. The only person you'll make a fool of is yourself.

Edit: but keep in mind the reason that I'm in this thread in the first place: I'm trying to salvage some sort of respect for your beliefs and position. Insulting my intelligence with transparent falsehoods is not going to help me achieve that goal.

 

[BilliardsBall]

On the off chance that you just misremembered what you said and you aren't deliberately misrepresenting it, here's what you said:


No qualifiers, no "you need to ask," no "you need to be in a specific place," no "you need to be listening." Just "God will speak to you."

But if you want to keep misrepresenting yourself, go ahead. The only person you'll make a fool of is yourself.

Edit: but keep in mind the reason that I'm in this thread in the first place: I'm trying to salvage some sort of respect for your beliefs and position. Insulting my intelligence with transparent falsehoods is not going to help me achieve that goal.

Thank you for reminding me of my precise words. What was the text or context of the TV program you watched? Perhaps the answer lies there.

I do think, by the way, we're overcomplicating, by going into a "I will query you to see if I can respect you because respect is earned."

I find that a horrible death by torture and resurrection commands respect, and while my testimony includes only anecdotal evidence, having witnessed to hundreds of people, there are two reasons for not trusting Jesus for salvation: the reason people tell you at first ask and the other reason--the particular sin they embrace.

Why on Earth did you watch TV rather than sit still for ten seconds at 8 PM that night? I'm sorry if I didn't advise you that biblically speaking, God's voice isn't always a mighty shout accompanied by trumpet blasts. Did you watch TV to avoid God's voice because that would complicate our movement towards God together? Did you watch TV to avoid God's voice rather than control the experiment more carefully because you are living in avoidance?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Thank you for reminding me of my precise words. What was the text or context of the TV program you watched? Perhaps the answer lies there.

Just stop it.

I do think, by the way, we're overcomplicating, by going into a "I will query you to see if I can respect you because respect is earned."

I find that a horrible death by torture and resurrection commands respect, and while my testimony includes only anecdotal evidence, having witnessed to hundreds of people, there are two reasons for not trusting Jesus for salvation: the reason people tell you at first ask and the other reason--the particular sin they embrace.

If Jesus did die on the cross, that wouldn't do anything to establish that his opinions are worth respecting. Do you automatically accept the opinion of every torture victim - or more accurately, the hearsay attributed to the torture victim - as necessarily true?

As for the resurrection: give me any reason to take the claim seriously.

Why on Earth did you watch TV rather than sit still for ten seconds at 8 PM that night?

Because the pronouncements of a self-appointed internet prophet aren't important enough for me to schedule my life around them.

I'm sorry if I didn't advise you that biblically speaking, God's voice isn't always a mighty shout accompanied by trumpet blasts.

Whatever form it comes in, you claimed that we can tell that it's a communication from God because we feel a "prompting from God."

Did you watch TV to avoid God's voice because that would complicate our movement towards God together? Did you watch TV to avoid God's voice rather than control the experiment more carefully because you are living in avoidance?

Nope. If there was an experiment going on, it was by you, not me. And your current approach - that I couldn't hear God because the TV was too loud is ridiculous to the point of dishonesty.

Your prediction failed. That much is settled. The only question now is whether you have the ethics and intellectual honesty to acknowledge this or whether you'll continue to make excuses.

 

[Looncall]

I did abstinence education in local schools, not a Good News Club.

Abstinence education? I gather that the chief effects of such efforts are increased rates of teen pregnancies and STDs. (Not) well done!

 

[JustWondering]

As an avid atheist and to the greater degree anti-theist I have been trying for over a year to come to grips with what I believe and stand for. So many atheists prattle about reason and logic while even when I was a Muslim I did the exact same thing although with less intellectual contradictions. The more I speak to atheists and try to understand things that are valued to us like science and pragmaticism I find myself incapable of rationalizing my own atheism.

When I was a Muslim the primary reason I left Islam was because of other Muslims and also become of the ideology yet here I am in something that should be creedless and the minute I question something that is secular I am a public enemy amongst atheists. Just by questioned transgender issues I have been called a fake atheist and closet Christian. I used to cling to being a deist for this very reason as I could never understand the anger I witnessed by atheists, it made no sense to be angry at not religion but at secular ideas.

I witness conservatives, Christians, libertarians and pragmatic thinkers on religion criticize atheist for creating gods out of secular constructs and I can't help but wonder that this is the truth. As of now I am sure this is the truth as I am incapable of finding an atheist who is stringent with his principles and a fervent believer in safeguarding his own morals.

As of now I cannot call myself an atheist anymore. I do not believe in the supernatural yet all I have left is philosophy and all that emanates from it.

Atheism is a rational position to me yet every atheist I know is so irrational.

You say you left Islam because of other Muslims, now you're saying that you can't be atheist because of atheists. Maybe you should just be yourself and stop worrying so much about what labels to place on things.

 

[BilliardsBall]

source please

You are unaware that atheists currently gripe that religiosity is traced to genetics? That people have a sense of the numinous due to a genetic marker--which makes all atheists genetically abnormal?

 

[Darkstorn]

You are unaware that atheists currently gripe that religiosity is traced to genetics? That people have a sense of the numinous due to a genetic marker--which makes all atheists genetically abnormal?

I can't determine whether this is an argument or just wishful thinking.

Your hypothesis doesn't take into account atheistic religions.

Aaaand i think it's a rude blanket statement to make claims that ALL atheists are genetically abnormal. Much like me saying that ALL theists are genetically inferior.

 

[BilliardsBall]

I can't determine whether this is an argument or just wishful thinking.

Your hypothesis doesn't take into account atheistic religions.

Aaaand i think it's a rude blanket statement to make claims that ALL atheists are genetically abnormal. Much like me saying that ALL theists are genetically inferior.

Atheists have said "God is not real, it's a genetic predisposition to worship," which leads me to believe IF they are correct that they are genetic aberrations. How is my statement illogical?

 

[Pudding]

So many atheists prattle about reason and logic while even when I was a Muslim I did the exact same thing although with less intellectual contradictions.

Please elaborate the details how those atheists prattle about reason and logic and the intellectual contradictions you mention about, otherwise your statement is too vague.

The more I speak to atheists and try to understand things that are valued to us like science and pragmaticism I find myself incapable of rationalizing my own atheism.

Same, please elaborate the details.

When I was a Muslim the primary reason I left Islam was because of other Muslims and also become of the ideology yet here I am in something that should be creedless and the minute I question something that is secular I am a public enemy amongst atheists. Just by questioned transgender issues I have been called a fake atheist and closet Christian.

Without elaborate the details how you questioned transgender issues and how do they angry at you, your statements are just too vague.

If you wish to complain about their behavior and let us see whether they are right for being angry at you for how you questioning transgender issues, you ought to elaborate the things you're talking about.

I used to cling to being a deist for this very reason as I could never understand the anger I witnessed by atheists, it made no sense to be angry at not religion but at secular ideas.

Why it made no sense for an atheist to be angry at secular ideas?

An atheist may angry at a secular idea because that secular idea is immoral, unjust, insultive. It's totally made sense if an atheist angry at such secular ideas.

An atheist may also angry at some specific religions for the same reason but it's not necessarily they must angry at all religion because it may appear that they do not think all religion are all immoral, unjust and insultive.

I witness conservatives, Christians, libertarians and pragmatic thinkers on religion criticize atheist for creating gods out of secular constructs and I can't help but wonder that this is the truth.

Please define "god" and elaborate how the atheist you mention creating gods out of secular constructs.

As of now I am sure this is the truth as I am incapable of finding an atheist who is stringent with his principles and a fervent believer in safeguarding his own morals.

Non sequitur.

every atheist I know is so irrational.

Please elaborate the irrational you're talking about.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Atheists have said "God is not real, it's a genetic predisposition to worship," which leads me to believe IF they are correct that they are genetic aberrations. How is my statement illogical?

A Christian once told me that he doesn't like baseball.

Why don't Christians like baseball?

 

[Straw Dog]

I witness conservatives, Christians, libertarians and pragmatic thinkers on religion criticize atheist for creating gods out of secular constructs and I can't help but wonder that this is the truth. As of now I am sure this is the truth as I am incapable of finding an atheist who is stringent with his principles and a fervent believer in safeguarding his own morals.

As of now I cannot call myself an atheist anymore. I do not believe in the supernatural yet all I have left is philosophy and all that emanates from it.

Atheism is a rational position to me yet every atheist I know is so irrational.

Every single one of us humans are ultimately irrational because we are not driven by reason. We are driven by desire; life means desire. The desire-less might as well be dead.

I don't call myself 'atheist' or anything other than human being, just trying to realize my own nature. I am stringent with the principles of preservation and expression, regardless of what philosophy or religion have to say.

All you have left is yourself, so you do you!

 

[BilliardsBall]

A Christian once told me that he doesn't like baseball.

Why don't Christians like baseball?

It's a genetic abberation.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

It's a genetic abberation.

And do all Christians make hasty generalizations, or is that just your thing?

 

[BilliardsBall]

And do all Christians make hasty generalizations, or is that just your thing?

My syllogism is a hasty generalization?

1. Atheists have noted that they believe and understand a genetic marker has been found that makes people religious (rather than God existing makes people religious).

2. Atheists are irreligious/nonreligious.

3. Most persons are religious, so atheists must be genetically abnormal.

 

[DavidFirth]

Are atheists irrational?

YES


Just kidding

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

My syllogism is a hasty generalization?

1. Atheists have noted that they believe and understand a genetic marker has been found that makes people religious (rather than God existing makes people religious).

2. Atheists are irreligious/nonreligious.

3. Most persons are religious, so atheists must be genetically abnormal.

Your crappy argument laden with unsupported points doesn't become a syllogism just because you divide it into three blocks.

 

[Valjean]

BilliardsBall said: ↑
1. Atheists have noted that they believe and understand a genetic marker has been found that makes people religious (rather than God existing makes people religious).

2. Atheists are irreligious/nonreligious.

3. Most persons are religious, so atheists must be genetically abnormal.

No "genetic marker" making people religious. However, we do have certain psychological or neurological quirks that make us more prone to religiosity.

People are psychologically variable, just as we're physically variable. Degree of skepticism, authoritarianism, anxiety, apophenia, confidence, &c vary. This variability is not abnormal.

Many people are religious for reasons not related to genetics. There are social pressures, economic benefits, and so on.

"Abnomal" is a loaded word. Are adults who can tolerate dairy abnormal?

Perhaps some of the traits that were normal and useful over most of our history as Pleistocene hunter-gatherers, are now dysfunctional in a civilized culture. Perhaps altering some of our inborn tendencies is a good and useful thing.