Between winning then leaving and winning then annexing? I guess we could surrender.
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Are Ameristan & Israel Determined To Ignite War With Iran?
- Thread starter Revoltingest
- Start date
Or conduct ourselves in a peaceful & cooperative manner.
That's grammatically actually outside not in between, hence my confusion is explicable.
Spurvle.
You are suggesting that peace is the answer. That's very innovative.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
<sigh>
It has been so long since we have had a "good war"
But seriously this is the sort of war that I could have seen Trump getting us into. Fortunately it appears to be too little too late for that. And I do not see Joe Biden continuing Trump's aggression.
Heyo
Veteran Member
I'm not the biggest fan of Trump but he has been pretty anti-militaristic. I guess he hasn't much stock in weapons manufacturing. I don't think war is on his agenda.
But Trump isn't the one calling the shots. That is a thing QAnon got right, there is a deep state swamp. And that is the military-industrial complex which works independent from the presidency.
Iran has been on their map for a long time but even they must realize that the US is currently not fit to start another war and even the war loving Biden will not want to get into such an adventure. There is neither the economic capacity nor the public support.
Israel may not have to think about that and they'd happily draw the US into a war with Iran but that may backfire when the US isn't going to let themselves be pulled in or only do it half heartedly.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Biden is war loving?
Heyo
Veteran Member
He voted for Iraq II.
The history is long and sordid. The Islamic world split into Sunni and Shi'a after the Battle of Karbala in 680AD. Or more properly the battle sealed the split between the two groups.
In keeping with the spirit of these times, the Shi'a and Sunni now are at loggerheads partly because the nations of Saudi Arabia and Iran are enemies with religion being part of the toxic mix (surprise? no).
Then we have Israel which in spite of governments making nice has a large populace of Muslims who hate the very existence of Israel. Witness the recent uproar when popular Egyptian and Jewish singers dared to have a friendly exchange.
And among enemies, Iran has been projecting power in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip including promoting attacks on Israel.
If this level of toxicity and desire to obliterate opponents, we have those in the USA who see a nice war as an end times promoting event and those who believe the US must take Israel's side no matter what.
It's a minor miracle there has been real war for decades. Instead we have proxy fights as in Gaza/Israel, assassination, arming the two sides in Yemen with missiles occasionally reaching Saudi Arabia, cyber attacks on Iran and other elements of a low level war.
So there's a war being fought and the thread title should have included "full scale" as in "full scale war"
In keeping with the spirit of these times, the Shi'a and Sunni now are at loggerheads partly because the nations of Saudi Arabia and Iran are enemies with religion being part of the toxic mix (surprise? no).
Then we have Israel which in spite of governments making nice has a large populace of Muslims who hate the very existence of Israel. Witness the recent uproar when popular Egyptian and Jewish singers dared to have a friendly exchange.
And among enemies, Iran has been projecting power in Lebanon and the Gaza Strip including promoting attacks on Israel.
If this level of toxicity and desire to obliterate opponents, we have those in the USA who see a nice war as an end times promoting event and those who believe the US must take Israel's side no matter what.
It's a minor miracle there has been real war for decades. Instead we have proxy fights as in Gaza/Israel, assassination, arming the two sides in Yemen with missiles occasionally reaching Saudi Arabia, cyber attacks on Iran and other elements of a low level war.
So there's a war being fought and the thread title should have included "full scale" as in "full scale war"
20/20 hindsight is so clear.
At the time, there was a lot of WMD lies being promoted as a reason for war.
I don't hold that vote against him.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So did quite a few others. That one exception does not qualify him as pro-war.
Heyo
Veteran Member
He is in prominent company with Hillary Clinton and John Kerry.
I think he is less scrupulous when it comes to war than Trump. (Few good things to say about the later, but he seems to not like war or the military.)
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And some of those lies were from Iraq herself. Iraq was in a difficult position. They had to get rid of those weapons due to losing the first Iraq war, but were worried about attacks from their old enemy Iran. They made it difficult for the UN monitors and made it seem that they might be armed. 9/11 made us a bit too quick to jump to conclusions.
Part of this is that fear of nuclear weapons is based partly on inaccurate information. Nuclear fallout isn't eternal. If someone bombs some place with a nuke that doesn't mean that nothing will ever grow there again or that you can never again grow anything or that people will turn into mutants. Its pretty bad, but its not anything like the Fallout videogame. People have this fear that if some country gets hold a of nuke it will destroy the planet...not really. It will kill a lot of people and animals, but it won't ruin the whole planet.
It's not a popular solution.
Heyo
Veteran Member
The issue isn't the destructive power but that an attack can happen at all.
There is no defence against nuclear ICBMs. Attacking a country with nuclear weapons will practically guarantee a successful counter strike against the US or one of its allies. It deprives the US from attacking without retaliation.
I hope you're correct.<sigh>
It has been so long since we have had a "good war"
But seriously this is the sort of war that I could have seen Trump getting us into. Fortunately it appears to be too little too late for that. And I do not see Joe Biden continuing Trump's aggression.
I don't have the fears you mentioned.
Nonetheless, thermonuclear warfare is really worth avoiding.
I hear you, and you're right.
I think its actually not in Iran's best interests to have nukes even though it tries for them. When a dead body is found its best not to be standing around holding a weapon. In international intrigue it often pays to do something evil then blame your enemy. This is how wars get started. 3rd party starts it, stays out, collects the benefits. That's called warmongering, and Iran is making itself a patsy.