Are American boys getting stupider everyday?

[Jonathan Bailey]

If you value masculinity, yes. I'm to much occupied with my humanity that I have not much time for masculinity.

I value maleness, not masculinity.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

They actually aren't academic grades are fairly stable and attendance is rising. School dropouts have been cut in more than half over the last 40 years. On the international level, the US has been slipping mostly due to lack of investment in public schools and a greater than ever disparity between States. The fact that many other countries have been investing more heavily in education and gotten richer over the years makes competition harder on the international level (Europe is no longer a bloodsoaked continent that it was in the 50's, East Asia has developped tremendously in the 70's, the fall of communism made the international community less divided, etc.). The impression of "falling behind" is also caused by the fact that women have increased their participation in the workforce over the decades. While girls and young women always had a better attendance and higher grades on average than boys and young men wasn't such an issue for futur employment since women used to occupy more part time jobs or have shorter carriers than men, but now occupy almost half of the full time workforce and similarly long carriers.



This is the reason why, despite the fact boys and young men attend more school than ever before and maintain an acceptable average, we talk more and more about this issue and invest a lot of time, financial and intellectal resources in solving this issue. Back in the 60's and 70's about nearly half of all boys and young men didn't finish high school, but nobody really cared. There were plenty of low qualification, well payed manufacturing jobs to employ them as well as a good network of professionnal school to train construction workers, farmers and the like. Today, outsourcing and especially automation has cut back the number of good pay low qualification jobs. The still operating and manufacturing jobs are most often in high tech domain which require, even for assembly jobs, more qualification and thus higher diploma.

In resumé, there is nothing specifically wrong with boys and young men. In fact they are more competitive than ever, but the competition has gotten a lot harder both on the international and national level which gives the illusion that they are doing bad.

There was a time in history when it was mostly the male sex that had college degrees and professions as lawyers, doctors, CPA's, bank executives, dentists, surgeons, military officers, scientists, architects, engineers and such.

My father was born in 1935. High school graduate and military service plus DOD Navy civilian electrician by trade, Hunters Point and Mare Island Naval Shipyards in SF Bay Area. Died in car wreck 1981 by drunken young punk crossing the center line and sustaining only a scratch or two. My grandfather was born in 1908. High-school graduate, traveling salesman, textiles wholesale, Hudson and Lincoln-Mercury dealer new car salesman, World War Two solider and for 15 years San Francisco Bay Area union heavy equipment operator, Local 3, IUOE. Retired 1973. Died 1980. Grandmother and mom were housewives throughout their marriage and motherhood. Before marriage my grandmother (born 1908, HS graduate) worked for Del Monte (canned fruits) in Monterey, CA as an office secretary. Before marriage, my mother (born 1937, HS graduate, college dropout in short order) worked a brief career for TWA airlines and St. Francis Hotel in SF as a telephone operator. Met father in navy while his ship was in port at San Francisco in late 1950's at a Greyhound bus station.

 

[ChristineM]

What is the MALE role then in nature beyond sperm dispenser?

Look at the wolf family. Watch Disney's The Legend of Lobo.

Men of the human species need to be the alpha male wolf of the family.

The man (wolf male) went out and hunted the meat for his family. The woman (wolf b_tch) stayed in her home (cave den) with her children (litter of wolf pups).

You may not have noticed but humans although distantly related evolutionary, are not wolves. The traditional hunter gatherers, the male (usually but not always) hunted and the female gathered, butchered, prepared, cooked, cleaned up, looked after the children, looked after the fire, looked after the home and provided sex for those hard done to hunters Believe me, for the supposed stronger sex, hunting is a doddle.

 

[Father Heathen]

Because people like you vote for those who routinely cut funding for education and whose economic policies require both parents to work to keep the family afloat?

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

Because people like you vote for those who routinely cut funding for education and whose economic policies require both parents to work to keep the family afloat?

Could it be that sons are not pushed like they used to be?

parents: push your boys to achieve!

bad grades?

no games!
no tech stuff!
no car!
no dating!
no party!
no phone!
no nothing!

...until grades improve, no exceptions!

 

[Heyo]

Nope we're outpaced.

Jobs report: Women occupied more jobs than men in December

The Amazon invasion has begun.

That doesn't contradict anything I said. Women may now have more jobs (in health care and retail) but it doesn't change the pay gap (as health care and retail aren't high paying jobs) and it doesn't change that the top level jobs are still occupied by men.

 

[Heyo]

I value maleness, not masculinity.

What's the difference in your opinion?

 

[Twilight Hue]

Uh oh. Looks like the ladies may have to wait a tiny bit longer.


Gender pay gap 2019: Equal wages expected in 257 years, report says


In the meantime, I'll put the kettle on.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

What's the difference in your opinion?

a male produces sperm
a masculine person drinks beer

a male doesn't need to be a body-builder to be a good economic provider for family: he can have a doctorate and routinely make six figures while still being physically frail as a lamb: a man doesn't have to be Hercules in muscle to be a successful machinist either

 

[ChristineM]

That doesn't contradict anything I said. Women may now have more jobs (in health care and retail) but it doesn't change the pay gap (as health care and retail aren't high paying jobs) and it doesn't change that the top level jobs are still occupied by men.

Yeah, that glass ceiling is a pain

 

[ChristineM]

a male produces sperm
a masculine person drinks beer

a male doesn't need to be a body-builder to be a good economic provider for family: he can have a doctorate and routinely make six figures while still being physically frail as a lamb: a man doesn't have to be Hercules in muscle to be a successful machinist either

A female can produce babies, they only need men for a few minutes to start the process.
A feminine person can drink beer too, it is not an exclusive men only club

Nor does a woman. Governments are ensuring the old man provide/woman homemaker tradition is outdated.

And women too can earn doctorates and routinely earn six figures.

 

[McBell]

Could it be that sons are not pushed like they used to be?

parents: push your boys to achieve!

bad grades?

no games!
no tech stuff!
no car!
no dating!
no party!
no phone!
no nothing!

...until grades improve, no exceptions!

This reply ignores the points of the post it is in reply to.

 

[Heyo]

a male produces sperm

That's just a biological fact. And it doesn't change when the role in society changes. No reason for affirmative action for boys.

a masculine person drinks beer

a male doesn't need to be a body-builder to be a good economic provider for family: he can have a doctorate and routinely make six figures while still being physically frail as a lamb: a man doesn't have to be Hercules in muscle to be a successful machinist either

So, maleness is fitting into the provider role, right?

 

[Nyingjé Tso]

Vanakkam

I'm so absolutely baffled that I don't even know where to begin...

How in the holy space kitten's name are people still thinking like this in 2020.

Seriously

 

[Heyo]

a male produces sperm
a masculine person drinks beer

a male doesn't need to be a body-builder to be a good economic provider for family: he can have a doctorate and routinely make six figures while still being physically frail as a lamb: a man doesn't have to be Hercules in muscle to be a successful machinist either

By the way: you haven't read or watched a lot of Jordan Peterson lately, did you?

 

[PureX]

American boys have always been very stupid. I know, I was one of them, and I was frightfully stupid as a boy.

Learning how to tie knots and start fires would not have helped me much, though I didn't even know how to do those things. And friends that I knew who were boy scouts weren't any smarter or wiser than I was. Maybe they were a little more focused, but not on anything that might be labeled intelligence or wisdom.

And I don't think there is any easy solution to the general dumbing down of the American people, male or female. I think we are working way too hard, and way too many hours to have any time or energy left to raise our children properly. I think we've all become so greedy that we won't invest in our children's education the way we need to for them to actually learn anything in our schools. And this has all been going on for so long that it's now a generational problem that would have to be solved generationally. And that's definitely not going to happen because our collective attention span is about three and a half minutes. And much less for the smart phone generation.

So howling over the boy scouts is little more than whispering into a hurricane, at this point. IMO

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

That's just a biological fact. And it doesn't change when the role in society changes. No reason for affirmative action for boys.

So, maleness is fitting into the provider role, right?

For Homo sapiens, that is what is natural. Sex roles may vary by species.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

American boys have always been very stupid. I know, I was one of them, and I was frightfully stupid as a boy.

Learning how to tie knots and start fires would not have helped me much, though I didn't even know how to do those things. And friends that I knew who were boy scouts weren't any smarter or wiser than I was. Maybe they were a little more focused, but not on anything that might be labeled intelligence or wisdom.

And I don't think there is any easy solution to the general dumbing down of the American people, male or female. I think we are working way too hard, and way too many hours to have any time or energy left to raise our children properly. I think we've all become so greedy that we won't invest in our children's education the way we need to for them to actually learn anything in our schools. And this has all been going on for so long that it's now a generational problem that would have to be solved generationally. And that's definitely not going to happen because our collective attention span is about three and a half minutes. And much less for the smart phone generation.

So howling over the boy scouts is little more than whispering into a hurricane, at this point. IMO

Even so, there was a time when boys grew into men and college education was mostly a male thing for all of that male stupidity. My sex has both the most geniuses and the most idiots. Those men who did not go to college could still be productive with skilled trades: carpenter, electrician, hard-hat, plumber, welder, machinist, chef, cabinet maker, gunsmith, mason, cowboy, farmer, blacksmith, railroad worker, solider, policeman, civil engineer, fireman, bricklayer, truck driver and mechanic. Boys also need to be taught a strong work ethic. They should aim to be either a college-educated professional or a skilled tradesman.

Americans still need houses to live in (or should we construct many more homeless shelters and prisons?). We still need roads. We need bridges and tunnels. We still need harbors for shipping. We need locks, levees and dams. We need office buildings. We still need ships, trucks, tractors, combines, planes and trains. We still need sewers and sanitation. We need running water and natural gas. We need energy and fossil fuels. Lawns need mowing, trees need pruning. Homes need painting. Windows and doors need fixing. Carpets need laying. Fences and sidewalks need to be built. We need reservoirs. We still need war materiel. The national forest still needs stewardship. We still need power lines and telephones. We still need goods and people to be moved. We still need clothes and food to be produced. We still need automobiles.

Male achievement is crucial to our survival. Women will not and/or cannot do most of those things above.

 

[PureX]

Even so, there was a time when boys grew into men and college education was mostly a male thing for all of that male stupidity. My sex has both the most geniuses and the most idiots. Those men who did not go to college could still be productive with skilled trades: carpenter, electrician, hard-hat, plumber, welder, machinist, chef, cabinet maker, gunsmith, mason, cowboy, farmer, blacksmith, railroad worker, solider, policeman, fireman, bricklayer, truck driver and mechanic. Boys also need to be taught a strong work ethic. They should aim to be either a college-educated professional or a skilled tradesman.

Sadly, according to your post, all "growing up and being men" means to you is learning how to work. Americans are already working themselves into a stupor. I don't think men learning to work is even remotely an issue.

 

[Jonathan Bailey]

Sadly, according to your post, all "growing up and being men" means to you is learning how to work. Americans are already working themselves into a stupor. I don't think men learning to work is even remotely an issue.

I don't see much work going on in Lawton, OK at all. The streets and infrastructure are in total shambles and rarely is a tractor, a road roller, a dump truck, a paving machine or a hard-hat on the streets to be seen. I see a lot of (mostly male) cops cruising around in shiny new police cars in town here, though. This city of 100K people can buy more police cars but can't even pave the streets. Just strolling around my neighborhood in the morning there is seldom fewer than five cop cars to be seen. And this is dirt-farmer Oklahoma, not East LA.