1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Anyone worship Lilith?

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Kapalika, Aug 2, 2017.

  1. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,020
    Ratings:
    +1,385
    Religion:
    Shaivism & LHP
    I've been curious a while about those who worship Lilith and the source materials and/or scriptures they draw on. I wanted to ask so I could figure out maybe where to go from there.

    To explain a little... when I first got into Satanism 6 or 7 years ago Lilith was really important to my practice. But overtime I drifted away from that. However lately I've had some insights and dreams and other mystical experiences telling me that I need to return to her at some point here and add her into my practice. The reasons for that are rather personal so I won't get into explaining that. She never technically left my pantheon, I just kind of forgot about her even when working with her children.

    It's just that when I worshiped her... I didn't really know much about her mythology wise. The basics okay and some other stuff of some sources I read I've long forgotten the names of and then my own direct experiences. I never had much of an intellectual or scholarly knowledge of her. Where I am now, I need that, some kind of scriptural foundation or other authority. I can't just add things willy nilly. Just the way I am.
     
  2. Serpent Child

    Serpent Child Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2017
    Messages:
    248
    Ratings:
    +87
    Religion:
    Spiritual Satanism
    I do not worship anybody or anything, personally I find the term "worship" inconceivable and an abomination, so I'm not 100% sure what you mean by worship in your question. I've heard Lilith derives from Lalitha whom is the divine mother in Hinduism.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  3. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2014
    Messages:
    6,446
    Ratings:
    +4,797
    Not really. I think different etymologies.
     
  4. Desert Snake

    Desert Snake ️️️️️️️️️️

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2011
    Messages:
    20,640
    Ratings:
    +1,687
    Completely unfamiliar with Lilith.
     
  5. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,599
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Animism
    Hello Kapalika,
    IMO "Satan" = Saturnus, the Roman God of fertility and Lilith = The prime goddess of creation in the Jewish religion. Link: - Lilith - Wikipedia - (Don´t bother with the patriarchal judgement of her divine qualities)

    If you´re having thoughts whether to worship/focus on one the other, my (wild) guess would be that maybe you should focus more on your female part in general? Maybe specifically your spiritual intuition and your dreams and mythical experiences? What are they telling?

    But you already knew this, didn´t you? :)
     
  6. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,599
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Animism
  7. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,007
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    I haven't worshiped her so far, never felt much of an inclination to it or connection to her.
    What would you consider scriptural authority? The original Hebrew myths? Later but still historical interpretations (e.g. in late-medieval grimoires)? Or also what contemporary occultists say about her?
    I'm asking because much of what I read about her was not from any scientific source, but just from the weblogs and books of occultists. Those often had scientific sources themselves, but their texts are often written in a way that doesn't distinguish between the original myths and their own UPGs.
    One example (which at least states the sources, though) would be these articles here: Lilith (+ Arachnid Lilith and Taninsam)
    Lilith’s Esoteric Saturnian Aspect
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  8. Native

    Native Natural Philosopher

    Joined:
    Aug 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,599
    Ratings:
    +201
    Religion:
    Animism
    Quote from - Lilith’s Esoteric Saturnian Aspect

    “In Qabbalah, Qliphoth, and Goetic Magic, Thomas Karlsson posits that Lilith’s true throne is within the Qlipha known as Satorial (Lucifuge/Saturn). This postulation has been disputed by various authors– after all, it can be seen as counterintuitive. This article serves to defend Karlsson’s postulation.

    According to Dion Fortune, the nature of Lilith is comparable to an inversion of the Sephira known as Binah. Binah is attributed to the planet Saturn and is considered to be a feminine manifestation of Jehovah’s power”.
    ---------------------
    I don´t think Lilith´s postulated connection to the Satorial (Lucifer/Saturn) is contra intuitive. But I don´t think the "attribution to planet Saturn” is correct.

    Lucifer and the Roman Saturnus is equal as fertility deities and they don´t represent any planet, but the white contours of the Milky Way on the northern hemisphere as illustrated here - The Greatest God in Heaven

    The mythical Lilith-connection to Lucifer/Saturnus comes naturally as Lilith resembles the Mother Goddess of the Milky Way on the southern (Underworld) hemisphere as illustrated here - The great Mother Goddess

    In this way, we have both gendered primordial fertility deities of creation which is told all over the world´s cultural Stories of Creation.
     
  9. Muslim-UK

    Muslim-UK Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2017
    Messages:
    1,361
    Ratings:
    +493
    Religion:
    Islam
    I understood Lilith to be a Succubus Demon that presents herself as a beautiful woman. She appears to willing men in their dreams and shows them a good time. In her true form, you'd likely jump out of a closed window from the 9th floor.
     
    • Funny Funny x 1
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    37,023
    Ratings:
    +10,396
    Religion:
    Judaism
    You are clearly someone who takes her theology seriously.
     
  11. Mrpasserby

    Mrpasserby Do not just Believe 'Become', I am Sufficient.

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2017
    Messages:
    64
    Ratings:
    +33
    Religion:
    Experiential Knowledge

    Serpent Child: What you said... Respect! :)
     
  12. Jainarayan

    Jainarayan ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2011
    Messages:
    19,674
    Ratings:
    +7,758
    Religion:
    Hinduism, Vaishnava
    You are right, completely different.

    Lilith - Wikipedia

    Lalitā means "she who plays", as a mother plays with her children.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2009
    Messages:
    4,921
    Ratings:
    +1,606
    Religion:
    Pagan
    I'm far from an expert so I'm not sure how much help I can be. As far as I recall, you'll find the most detailed descriptions of Lilith in Hebrew and modern occult texts. In the Hebrew tradition, she's very firmly a demoness rather than a goddess and commonly associated with both sexual immorality and child murder. Think of her as the prototype for the traditional image of a succubus and you're not far off.

    In modern texts she can represent absolutely bloody anything. If he's to your taste, Michael Ford makes a fair few references to her in his brand of Luciferianism, as far as I remember. She's been variously portrayed as a feminist symbol for liberated women, a fearsome symbol of the dark side of sex and womanhood, or a much more benign and misunderstood goddess. As I say, with occult books anything goes. Common themes are sex and femininity throughout.

    Finally, she supposedly has some significance in the various shreds of Mesopotamian folklore we have. However, you won't be likely to get much info on that front without access to an archaeological dig.

    Sorry about how vague this all is, it's been a while since I read anything about Lilith. Even then, information on her was scattered, sometimes contradictory and (let's be honest here) sometimes made up on the spot to add extra spookiness to a book.


    *Edit*

    Found a website that has a pretty solid looking bibliography if you wanted more info on the Jewish folklore side of things.

    Lilith
     
    #13 Erebus, Aug 2, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2017
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,020
    Ratings:
    +1,385
    Religion:
    Shaivism & LHP
    Ugh this is what happens when I make a topic too close to going to sleep.

    1) Wut? What do you mean you don't know wors
    2) Pretty sure Lilith has no etymology with Sanskrit. I did a quick search of the etymology and there isn't any connection and Lalitha is more just of a common name, sometimes used to refer to Pravati .

    I find it very hard to imagine Pravati as anything at all like Lilith. Lilith would actually be closest to various tantric Dakinis if anything. Someone once pointed out to me actually that if the west didn't have the stigmas it did the Succubi mythos might of developed very similarly to the Dakini's mythology

    He had actually made a point that Succubi are possibly a "low level" type of being of the same type, but I think he described them as more Asura. Who the heck knows though? It's hard to really put deities into other cultural contexts. Not impossible, but hard to do so authentically.

    I've seen this claim pop up every now and then but I've never once seen any credible historical evidence for it. It seems to come from an assumption based on how similar the words look despite having no etymological connection.

    It's not an either or thing for me. Focusing on the female is very much a Trika kind of thing but this is different. Details are rather personal.

    The former two; the Hebrew myths and grimoires. A lot of what I read when I did worship her was what contemporary occultists said, which is why I said I didn't know much about the actual mythology. And ya, as you said, it's much easier to find what contemporary occultists think over secondary sources discussing the actual mythos.

    I kind of gave up trying to find credible sources after a certain point and just went with my own experiences. That's probably why she became less important over time until I kind of just stopped having anything to do with her. It actually lasted maybe a year or so before I mostly forgot about her despite working with Succubi for years after that, but that's rare these days.

    It's clear that at the time I just wasn't in a place to properly work with Lilith directly as even then I mostly did so indirectly as if knowing deep down that was so, and that I probably have matured spiritually enough now to. If not something's messin' with me but I seriously doubt something is.

    Hopefully someone has written something objective and serious in the last 6 or so years or some information on good, older sources has come online now. I just figured it was easier to just ask and see if anyone already knew of some good credible sources than go digging for days.

    I'll take a look at those sources a bit later.

    Maybe I didn't 7 years ago but I clearly do now by making this topic.

    Actually my exchange with Liu just above shows that I'm not the only one to notice the lack of credible sources. So in defense of my past self I didn't exactly have access to good sources to start with.

    Anyways why don't you actually next time not be a jerk when people actually want to learn? We gotta start somewhere.
     
    #14 Kapalika, Aug 3, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2017
    • Like Like x 3
  15. Kapalika

    Kapalika EDM dancing gaygirl mystic
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2015
    Messages:
    2,020
    Ratings:
    +1,385
    Religion:
    Shaivism & LHP
    Ya, a lot of the modern stuff is what I read way back when. I'm relatively familar with her as a demon who was pinned for sudden infant death syndrome, and the whole deal with Succubi being very feared and harmful.

    That's part of the problem. Ford is actually... whatever a word for not my taste is lol

    Wow, that actually looks really useful! Thank you, I'll get to reading it here in just a moment and then checking out the sources.

    That seems to be true of the succubi in medieval times. Supposedly she gave birth to them after making some deal with an angel after getting kicked out of Eden IIRC. I don't know if she specifically was seen as ugly in her "true form" but in medieval times the succubi were.

    Also I love how you put that :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Maponos

    Maponos Kill V. Maim

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Messages:
    587
    Ratings:
    +321
    Religion:
    Polytheism
    Lilith never existed. She was created after the lilitu in Mesopotamian mythology.
     
  17. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,007
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    What's that even supposed to say? Also the Mesopotamian mythology was "invented" at some point. Whether a deity is fictional or not, and when it was invented doesn't seem to have much influence on whether people perceive them as real, or that's what I hear.
     
  18. Maponos

    Maponos Kill V. Maim

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2015
    Messages:
    587
    Ratings:
    +321
    Religion:
    Polytheism
    Exactly as it said. Lilith never existed but the lilitu did.
     
  19. Liu

    Liu Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 13, 2015
    Messages:
    1,007
    Ratings:
    +404
    Religion:
    Pandiabololatry
    Well, how do you wanna know that? That was about 5000 years ago.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. DavidFirth

    DavidFirth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 11, 2017
    Messages:
    6,811
    Ratings:
    +1,321
    Religion:
    Christian
    What is the basis of the existence of Lilith or lilitu? Neither are in the Bible.
     
Loading...