Anti-vaxers; The Real Issue.

[Dan From Smithville]

Yes, but as I said, when Jesus reappears we'll all see where we failed at right doctrinal. Maybe you and I can meet over coffee (or whatever your choice of beverage) and have a good laugh at how much we both missed of the truth in this life.

I hope that all Christians seek the best and most reliable information they can access to make the best most reasonable decisions they can. That includes evaluating their own bias. A pipe dream, but still a hope.

 

[We Never Know]

I also think its the Republican party, this time. Next time it could be the Democrats. People revolt sometimes, and sometimes its against a king and sometimes against their own government. Sometimes ignorance is a big part of it, and in this case ignorance is a big part of it.

Ignorance about vaccines began with ignorance of Thimerosal, which was a preservative used in vaccines. People listened to (and spread) rumors that because Thimerosal was a molecule with mercury in it that it "Contained mercury." Such claims were very misleading and alarming, and I remember encountering them in forums and other social media.

Following this were claims that vaccines were to blame for autism, or could be. Since autism is a general set of symptoms and not a specific disease it follows that anything could be the cause. The anti vaccine movement grew under this umbrella from a fear of mercury to a more nameless fear.

More recently there have been claims that vaccines contained: alien biotech, nanites, brain washing tech, viruses or viral spreading agents, genetic manipulation tech and other claims.

Sadly when the virus first emerged it was labeled as fake and a tool to take down Trump. Since then some have realized its real but others still think it was and is all about taking down Trump.

 

[We Never Know]

Is someone still an “antivaxxer” if they took several vaccines before no problem but does not like the idea of taking the Covid vaccines?

Because in the US since the virus emerged, its been made political.
The flu, pneumonia, polio, smallpox, etc were never made political.

 

[pearl]

It may be that some people are waiting for a final, full approval of the vaccines as we still have emergency approval only. I wish I had waited as I got the J&J vaccine. Some never get any type of vaccination like the flu or measles etc. What if this attitude prevailed during the polio epidemic? If these people don't want their kids vaccinated let them continue to home school.

 

[Martin]

As a general observation, public health campaigns need careful handling, with clear and consistent messaging. That seems to have been lacking in the US, particularly when the Farting Trumpet was in charge.

 

[PureX]

True enough. But then again, societies have been collapsing throughout written history. It started way before capitalism. It might appear to be the human condition itself, apart from any political or economic system.

Well, greed, and particularly capitalist greed, is a manifestation of an innate human desire to be in control of one's circumstances, for the sake of one's own survival, and pleasure. We want more than we have, more than we need, and more than we deserve because we fear the consequences of not having enough when we need it. Yet as individuals hoard more and more for themselves, they cause other individuals to suffer the consequences of going without. Driving up our collective fear, and suffering, as a result. Which then in turn drives more people to hoard even more resources, and so on, until their society collapses from all the mutual animosity, paranoia, and dysfunctional hoarding of resources.

Capitalism as a system engenders and enables this fear, and greed, and competition (social animosity) as a systemic mandate. And as a result it poisons any collective society of humans that is foolish enough to allow it.

It is not, however, inevitable that human society be continually destroyed from within by this innate individual desire to be in control of our circumstances. We can learn to gain BETTER control by acquiring it collectively, and cooperatively, instead of by gaining it at the expense of everyone and everything around us. When we humans lived in smaller collectives, we managed to do this quite successfully. It's only when we chose to increase the size of our collectives (for increased safety and security, i.e., control) that our individual fear and greed could be hidden from collective view, and fester, and infect the rest of the collective. But we do not have to live like dumb animals. We can at any point choose to think and behave like humans, and to act on behalf of the well-being of all of us, together.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

To reduce it to anti-vaxers being unthinking, uncaring, ignorant, etc, is just nor keeping pace with reality. It's a very complex issue.

I see about seven groups of unvaccinated people:

• Too young, vaccine not offered - in the States, you need to be 12 yo.
• Vaccine not available - this doesn't apply in in the States, but it is a big factor in poorer nations that have trouble acquiring vaccine and/or distributing it. This is the case where I live, in Mexico. Just this past week, many Mexicans were having difficulty getting to the only vaccination site. Also, suddenly, expats whose visa status was temporary rather than permanent were denied vaccines with no reason given (previously, both were eligible). This may be a supply issue, or blowback from political considerations (I don't think the Mexicans like the Americans depicting them as disease-ridden criminals powering the spike in cases in states like Texas and Florida).
• Medically contraindicated
• Distrust of white culture (American minorities) - different than merely distrusting science
• Defiant tribalism (Trump rallies)
• Defiant anti-scientism
• Indifference due to ignorance - doesn't really see a threat from COVID whether because it is only a flu or is a hoax (Spring break, perhaps Sturgis).

The last four qualify as, "being unthinking, uncaring, ignorant"

I think that this video below depicts the kind of thing that make these people so disliked. They call the video "science under attack" (they want Fauci prosecuted or hung), but it is also fierce, political tribalism with an unmistakable air of indifference and even hostility to the needs of others:

'Dangerous and stupid': ER physician on packed, maskless Trump event - CNN Video

Such people are the face of the vaccine hesitancy problem. The black people that fear the white government and the children too young to be vaccinated, for example, aren't making the noise. These people are, and they are increasingly despised. These are the same people that we've seen for months in public places like Walmart making scenes because they were asked to mask up. They're horrible, detestable people in the eyes of many.

As I said, even if large swatches of the unvaccinated are simple people that just don't know who to trust, they are not the face of the vaccine hesitancy problem. The loud, angry, selfish ones are.

So, I am agreeing with you. The problem isn't as simple as this one group.

 

[PureX]

II think that this is the kind of thing that make these people so disliked. The call it "science under attack" (they want Fauci prosecuted or hung), but it is also fierce, political tribalism with an unmistakable air of indifference and even hostility to the needs of others:

'Dangerous and stupid': ER physician on packed, maskless Trump event - CNN Video

Such people are the face of the vaccine hesitancy problem. The black people that fear the white government and the children to young to be vaccinated, for example, aren't making the noise. These people are, and they are increasingly despised. These are the same people that we've seen for months in public places like Walmart making scenes because they were asked to mask up. They're horrible, detestable people in the eyes of many.

As I said, even if large swatches of the unvaccinated are simple people that just don't know who to trust, they are not the face of the vaccine hesitancy problem. The loud, angry, selfish ones are.

So, I am agreeing with you. The problem isn't as simple as this one group.

Trumpism, and now republicanism in general, is the glorification of selfishness as 'freedom'. All their "issues" now are related to the idea of the defense of selfishness as a way of life. They hate the government because the government tells them what they can and cannot do. So they object to any government dictum whether it's logical, reasonable, necessary, or not. They hate paying taxes because they don't want the government giving 'their money' to anyone else. They love guns because guns represent individual power and control: the ability to 'play God' and to 'dispense justice' as they see fit. They want unrestrained free speech so they can insult and humiliate anyone they please for any reason they please without any social consequence. They 'believe in' capitalism because capitalism is fundamentally both antagonistic and selfish.

The republican party, the media, religion, and Wall Street have all been pandering to these "lesser angels" among us for decades, for money, power, and profit to themselves. And so have emboldened those among us that have allowed themselves to be succumbed by their own fear, greed, willful ignorance, and selfishness. And the consequences of doing this just keep on mounting.