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Featured Answering Tzarah's Question about Hebrew text of Yoel 4:1

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Ehav4Ever, May 11, 2020.

  1. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    This is a carry over from another thread where the question was asked by @Tzarah about a) the difference between the Hebrew text and the KJV bible and b) how a Torath Mosheh Jew who reads Hebrew reads the Hebrew text. The video below was created to answer both of these questions.

    Note: The video below was created since the only real way to display this is in a visual format.

     
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  2. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    OK, so you can read hebrew. That's cool, but you still haven't answered the simple question that I asked you and I don't have time to watch a 20 minute video. You spent all night making a video and still have not addressed the point that I originally made and asked you to explain.

    If the prophecy in Joel 3:1-2 or Yoel 4:1 says that Judah and Jerusalem will be in captivity or "exile" until the day that God gathers all nations to judge them, then how does it make any sense that there are already people in Israe claiming to be the tribe of Judah when that day has not even come yet?

    All of that hard work for nothing.
     
  3. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    You say you don't have time to watch the video yet also state that @Ehav4Ever hasn't addressed your question - how do you know that he hasn't if you haven't taken the time to watch the video?
     
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  4. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    1. I skimmed through enough of it to see and know that he did not address the question.

    2. In the OP, he lists the two things that he explains in the video -- none of which have anything to do with the question that I asked him.
     
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  5. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Okay. :handok:
     
  6. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Actually answer all of your questions which you asked about 3 ot 4. You may missed the answer to this specific question because, as you stated, you skimmed through the video. Also, because you were paying attention to the Hebrew, especially what is stated in the Hebrew text in verse 3 of the Hebrew text and a statement I made about it. (hint hint) Torath Mosheh Jews don't skim through. We go from start to finish.

    This is why I cover the major issue and that is the text Hebrew Israelites use not valid to Torath Mosheh Jews/Orthodox Jews and going even further the methods that Hebrew Israelites to in regards to English translations is not valid for Torath Mosheh Jews.

    Once you have go through the entire video come back and we will talk.
     
  7. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    The reason he didn't notice it is because he was skimming. I actually covered it when I addressed chapter 3 from the Hebrew text. He just didn't catch it. As soon as he watches the video in its entirety I will explain it in more detail.
     
  8. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    It's a simple question that does not require a 20 minute long video answer. Does the prophecy in Joel say that Judah and Jerusalem will be saved from captivity or "exile" on the day that God judges all nations in the valley of Jehoshaphat?

    Yes or no?
     
  9. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Finished it now. Great video. Shkoyech. ;)
     
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  10. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    He has not proven anything. The people who went into Israel in 1948 and claim to be the tribe or kingdom of Judah were supposedly in "exile", right? So how were they gathered and placed into Israel if the day where God says he will gather all of the "exiles" of Israel has not come yet?

    Regardless of the language being used, the context as well as the main point stays the same -- that the Israelites will not be saved from captivity or "exile" until the day that God gathers all nations to judge them.
     
  11. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    Maybe. Doesn't mean it's not a good video. :)
    That's really the only thing I was saying.
     
  12. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I had actually told you from the start that Hebrew Israelites have different texts, language, culture, etc. So of course your concept is based on KJV bible in English. Again, you skimmed through and you got snake eyes as they say.

    Better yet, as Ibn Ezra says about chapter 3:1 (על כל בשר -בארץ ישראל שהוא מקום ראוי להנבא). Further, Radaq states:

    אשפוך רוחי על כל בשר - פירש בישראל, כמו שאמרו במקום אחר כל בשר ואינו לכל בעלי חיים אלא האדם לבדו, ואומר ויברך כל בשר, יבא כל בשר כן פרט הנה כל בשר על ישראל הראויים להיות רוח הקדש עליהם
    Both showing what is clear in the Hebrew text and that is that Torath Mosheh Jews will be in the land of Israel prior to the events mentioned in 4:1 and 4:2.
     
    #12 Ehav4Ever, May 12, 2020
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  13. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    I was not aware that you actually attempted to address the question because in the OP you did not say that you did. So that's why I skimmed through it the first time.

    I have looked at the part where you explain the prophecy and it still for the most part says the same thing as all of the other bible versions.

    I even quoted from a hebrew Tanakh and even that still said the same thing for the most part.

    All of the different versions, including the hebrew, have one thing in common -- and it's the fact that they say that Judah and Jerusalem will not be gathered from captivity or exile until the day when God judges the nations.

    You have not proven or disproven anything. It honestly just seems like you wanted to show off the fact that you know how to speak some hebrew.
     
  14. Harel13

    Harel13 Am Yisrael Chai
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    And you contend that this cannot be about the Jews living in modern Israel because there hasn't been a judgement of nations?
     
  15. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    I agree that for Hebrew Israelites I have proven anything. Like I said you guys have different texts and also different concepts. None of the Hebrew texts say what you claim, as I showed. Also, if you understand what the Hebrew says why are you using an English KJV?

    You actually didn't quote from a Hebrew Tanakh. You sent a link with a Hebrew text on one side and an English on the left. Plus, your source is Habad. Habad agrees with what I stated about the text. Just ask them about chapters 3-4, after they have read you to from Chapter 1 to the end.
     
  16. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    The prophecy says that the Israelites (Judah and Jerusalem) will not be saved from captivity or "exile" until the day God judges the nations.

    Yet in 1948, a massive migration of jewish people into Israel began and has been going on ever since even to this day -- and they claim to be the tribe of Judah, returning from "exile".
     
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  17. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    Then that means your method is different than that of Torath Mosheh. In Torath Mosheh we don't skim for any reason if we are analysing something. We start at the beginning and go to the end when it comes to reading Tanakh.
     
  18. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    Notice how you continue to respond but each time you refuse to address the facts and subject matter concerning the prophecy? Even last night, you were playing these games. This lets me know all I need to know about you.

    If Joel 4:1-2 doesn't say what I "claim" it does then why don't you break it down and explain it. Because in your video, it said pretty much the same thing that I've been saying.
     
    #18 Tazarah, May 12, 2020
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
  19. Tazarah

    Tazarah Well-Known Member

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    Ezra is not a book of future prophecy. It is a book of history. It does not say that the Israelites will be in the land prior to Joel 4:1-2.

    Also, if Joel 4:1-2 doesn't say what I claim it does then why are you trying to find scriptures to prove that Israel will be in the land prior to Joel 4:1-2?

    ...
     
  20. Ehav4Ever

    Ehav4Ever Well-Known Member

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    A major part of the Hebrew Israelite theology is to use English, mostly KJV bibles, from the standpoint that it proves that certain, or all, African Americans are the real Israelites. Some Hebrew Israelites add native americans and latinos into this theology. A normal practice they have to disregard most of text with the exceptions of a verse here and verse there to come to their theological conclusions. They sometimes also go back and forth on their termonlogy and the ones that do use a little of Hebrew pronounce it and define in their own special ways. For example, one Hebrew Israelite once told me that their language of Hebrew was Ethiopian Ge'ez while another one told me that the Hebrew Israelite for of Hebrew is Bantu language of Kikongo.

    It can be all over the place.
     
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