Another lie by an apostate.

[JoStories]

and yet it was questioning that resulted in this woman's rejection from the leaders of your faith. I don't see this as someone who was encouraged to ask anything. But what is wickedness? Who gets to define it? Do you live by all of the laws of the OT? And if you do not, why don't you? Christ either did away with all of those laws or he did not. But I digress. Wickedness has changed with time and with culture. What you call this mutable concept may not be what I call it.



Snarky comment aside, I am sorry about your son however, you have not lost your son yet. He still lives and breathes friend. And while in no way whatsoever am I diminishing your trials or your pain, having him there right now is not the same as losing him. And there is one other thing, ... sometimes losing a child to death can be better than losing them while living. A dead child can be mourned and one can move on from that. A child who cannot be seen or spoken to for 3 decades is much different. Not knowing what they are doing, never seeing the grandchildren or great grandchildren....EVER. Trust me..its not the same.

First of all, thank you for the enlarged font size. It truly helps me read well. Now, that said, I will not compare suffering. Each persons' suffering is their own and there is no comparison. What you cannot know is that if you shun someone that that action might not be the one catalyst that causes them to commit suicide. Mental pain can be as acute and cause as much suffering as cancer pain. Are you responsible? No. The person is. But your actions could have contributed to the final choices.

 

[JoStories]

It is going against the direct commands of God, whether willingly or by self imposed ignorance...either way, the end result is the same. (2 Thess 1:6-9)

Please do not proselytize. I know the Bible. And Paul has little to do with the teachings of Christ. What you consider wickedness, based on the Bible, does not pertain to me. Furthermore, the concept can be vastly different based on culture and religion. As a Buddhist, for me, there is no such thing as wickedness.

The principles of the law apply equally today as they did back in ancient Israel. It is still wrong to commit adultery and fornication...to steal and to murder, but the one thing that changed when Christ came was the method of obtaining forgiveness

Then can I assume you don't eat pork or shellfish and never wear mixed fibers?

Anyone can call it whatever they like. It doesn't make God go away...it doesn't diminish the validity of his laws....and it doesn't mean that we will not have to account to him for the life he has given us.

You assume much here. I am Buddhist and for me, God is no 'he' nor are we accountable to that concept. We are accountable to ourselves. Can you prove that your version of God is the only one, and further, the correct one? No.

 

[savagewind]

Ok. One never knows on this forum whether the respondent is a male or female. Sorry about that.

Thank you Jo, but I am not offended. It was the post about men getting angry that I was responding to. Men being the better of the species makes me feel pleased that I am sometimes viewed as male.

I have finally read your red add on. I am not yelling either.

 

[savagewind]

I want to talk about lying. I am not nit picking.

They say we are to understand scripture as the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses understand it.
If we might fight understanding it their way some might consider that we are troubling them and that Jehovah will pay us back for the trouble we make for them "with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9.

I really, really want to talk about 1 Corinthians 15:33.

Let us began by examining what you believe scripture is for. Scripture is for
"teaching,+ for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,+"

For warning? No!

But for warning is what they say 1 Corinthians 15:33 is for. They say 1 Corinthians 15:33 was written for a warning to stay away from certain people.

Might it make more sense to ANYBODY (I am yelling) if it means to stay clear of certain ideas, like wrong ones?

If it means to cease from communicating wrongness, but they say it means to cease association with some people, then they are lying about the meaning of it.

Lying makes them bad association. Doesn't it?

 

[savagewind]

Why not tie it into the weeds and the wheat parable? They say weeds and wheat are people too.

But, they say, Jesus calls them "sons", so accordingly, that means people. Might it mean natural offspring that people care about? The mind's offspring are ideas and some people protect those ideas like they are their own children.

Perhaps the one called Jesus saw that too.

Wouldn't it be nice if instead of Heaven making war on Earth's stubborn people, the war is on THE WEEDS?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

But what is wickedness?

It is going against the direct commands of God, whether willingly or by self imposed ignorance...either way, the end result is the same. (2 Thess 1:6-9)

So, what about lying? Isn't "theocratic warfare" going against the direct commands of God?

 

[djhwoodwerks]

The principles of the law apply equally today as they did back in ancient Israel. It is still wrong to commit adultery and fornication...to steal and to murder, but the one thing that changed when Christ came was the method of obtaining forgiveness.

You didn't mention, keeping the Sabbath holy or, not lying or, honoring your mother and father, how come? Don't those "principles of the law" equally apply today, or have the JW's found a loophole for them?

 

[savagewind]

It is what they do with their disagreement that determines the actions of the elders.

Like if they talk about it.

Please don't comment on something you know nothing about. The "ex Witness" on this board and those who are just obsessed haters are not going to tell you the truth. They are going to feed off apostate lies and fire them as if they are gospel truth.

First of all, there is no one else who will seriously examine what has come down through the ages as from The Holy Spirit, so how can I be "feeding off apostate lies"? If it is The Helper, The Holy Spirit that I listen to then you are calling it an apostate. Not a good idea, I say.
Everyone, you, apostates, and all other humans who don't give a dam, know that the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses have been wrong about some things. How do you know they are not wrong about
1 Corinthians 15:33 and Matthew 28:19? Is it because you want them not to be wrong?

All I can say is that they will be judged as they judge. You are free to believe whatever you like...it doesn't make it truth.

And, of course, this applies to you too.

 

[JoStories]

I want to talk about lying. I am not nit picking.

They say we are to understand scripture as the governing body of Jehovah's Witnesses understand it.
If we might fight understanding it their way some might consider that we are troubling them and that Jehovah will pay us back for the trouble we make for them "with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of his might" 2 Thessalonians 1:6-9.

I really, really want to talk about 1 Corinthians 15:33.

Let us began by examining what you believe scripture is for. Scripture is for
"teaching,+ for reproving, for setting things straight,* for disciplining in righteousness,+"

For warning? No!

But for warning is what they say 1 Corinthians 15:33 is for. They say 1 Corinthians 15:33 was written for a warning to stay away from certain people.

Might it make more sense to ANYBODY (I am yelling) if it means to stay clear of certain ideas, like wrong ones?

If it means to cease from communicating wrongness, but they say it means to cease association with some people, then they are lying about the meaning of it.

Lying makes them bad association. Doesn't it?

You are talking here about ideas which are thoughts. You want to have to stay away from thoughts? How? And more importantly, why? thoughts are what got us the wheel and fire and homes with heat or cool and so on. You want to stay away from that? IMO, that is just silly. Ideas are what drive science, math, literature, and even history. You go from speaking about lying, which generally has little to do with ideas or thoughts and then delve into saying that you simply have to stay away from certain people due to ideas. How do the two correlate? How do they have anything to do with Paulian dogma? As I have said many times, Paul and his teachings are often in direct opposition to what Christ taught. Christ never taught that women were second class people and that they had to be subservient and not speak in church, etc. Only Paul does this. So please tell me how ideas are a bad thing and what that has to do with lying.

 

[savagewind]

You are talking here about ideas which are thoughts. You want to have to stay away from thoughts? How? And more importantly, why? thoughts are what got us the wheel and fire and homes with heat or cool and so on. You want to stay away from that? IMO, that is just silly. Ideas are what drive science, math, literature, and even history. You go from speaking about lying, which generally has little to do with ideas or thoughts and then delve into saying that you simply have to stay away from certain people due to ideas. How do the two correlate? How do they have anything to do with Paulian dogma? As I have said many times, Paul and his teachings are often in direct opposition to what Christ taught. Christ never taught that women were second class people and that they had to be subservient and not speak in church, etc. Only Paul does this. So please tell me how ideas are a bad thing and what that has to do with lying.

You say, "you". Do you mean me? LOL

If I teach God said, "this", but God didn't say it, it is lying. How isn't it lying?

 

[savagewind]

I believe God has said that in your set of beliefs that you live by and teach, if you have one or some that contradict the good ones, then those bad ones will
impair whatever you do with the favorable ones. I think it is being taught at 1 Corinthians 15:33. I have scriptural proof, but I have nobody to talk to about those proofs.

I think that they lie whenever they say it means that by associating with other people who do not believe as you do, your good character will be spoiled by them. One proof I have that they are wrong is Romans 8:35-39.

Can anyone else see that what they teach 1 Cor. 15:33 means contradicts what is written at Romans?

 

[savagewind]

Hi JoStories. The reason I ask if you mean savagewind whenever you say, "you" to me is because it looks like you are saying, "Savagewind believes a person should stay away from thinking". I absolutely do not believe that.

You are talking here about ideas which are thoughts.

No, both @Deeje and I are talking about teaching our thoughts to others to believe in them.

You want to have to stay away from thoughts?

No. But it seems as though the Jehovah's Witnesses do.

How?

With time and training it is possible to control my thinking.

And more importantly, why?

You have heard of meditation. It is for clearing the mind of dirty clutter.

thoughts are what got us the wheel and fire and homes with heat or cool and so on. You want to stay away from that? IMO, that is just silly.

I agree that to not think is silly.

Ideas are what drive science, math, literature, and even history.

Yes. Ideas are for trying out, but some ideas are for rejecting right away. Like the thought of hitting someone should be rejected right away. Yes?

You go from speaking about lying, which generally has little to do with ideas or thoughts and then delve into saying that you simply have to stay away from certain people due to ideas.

I am not saying that to stay away from certain people is right. THEY say that.

How do the two correlate? How do they have anything to do with Paulian dogma?

You got me!

As I have said many times, Paul and his teachings are often in direct opposition to what Christ taught. Christ never taught that women were second class people and that they had to be subservient and not speak in church, etc. Only Paul does this.

Paul might have been teaching in the manner of the prophets, which prophets many times spoke enigmas. They are for wondering about and NOT for following imo.

So please tell me how ideas are a bad thing

I think that you might agree with me that the idea to blow myself up in a crowded place is a bad idea.

and what that has to do with lying.

A bad idea is improper AND which is acted upon and/or taught.

 

[JoStories]

You say, "you". Do you mean me? LOL

If I teach God said, "this", but God didn't say it, it is lying. How isn't it lying?

Yes, I was saying you as in you, savagewind. You made the statements that I was referring to. You said:

Might it make more sense to ANYBODY (I am yelling) if it means to stay clear of certain ideas, like wrong ones?

Since when are ideas wrong? Ideas are thoughts you realize. That was what I was responding to.

 

[savagewind]

Yes, I was saying you as in you, savagewind. You made the statements that I was referring to. You said:


Since when are ideas wrong? Ideas are thoughts you realize. That was what I was responding to.

OK. I was referring to wrong dogma. I thought that was obvious. The context of 1 Corinthians 15:33 was that some believers were saying there is no resurrection. That was the wrong idea, according to the writer, I think. THEY say the writer meant to stay away from PEOPLE who say things that they do not agree with. I say it means to reject ideas that are not God's ideas about God, righteousness and truth.

 

[JoStories]

Hi JoStories. The reason I ask if you mean savagewind whenever you say, "you" to me is because it looks like you are saying, "Savagewind believes a person should stay away from thinking". I absolutely do not believe that. No, both @Deeje and I are talking about teaching our thoughts to others to believe in them. No. But it seems as though the Jehovah's Witnesses do. With time and training it is possible to control my thinking. You have heard of meditation. It is for clearing the mind of dirty clutter. I agree that to not think is silly. Yes. Ideas are for trying out, but some ideas are for rejecting right away. Like the thought of hitting someone should be rejected right away. Yes? I am not saying that to stay away from certain people is right. THEY say that. You got me! Paul might have been teaching in the manner of the prophets, which prophets many times spoke enigmas. They are for wondering about and NOT for following imo.I think that you might agree with me that the idea to blow myself up in a crowded place is a bad idea. A bad idea is improper AND which is acted upon and/or taught.

Sure, some ideas are bad ones. I think most would agree that Oppenheimer had a very bad idea but nonetheless, his bad idea led to the atomic bomb. Still, the idea, whether good or bad, came to fruition. I think everyone can agree that Hitler's ideas were some of the worst that history has known to date yet they, too, were brought into existence at the behest of a madman. Meditation might help some clear the mind of clutter but it certainly didn't help Dauhmer or Bundy or Hitler or Pol Pot or hundreds of thousands of others. You may wish to blow yourself up and sure, its a lousy idea but ISIS members do that almost every single day. Does that stop them from doing this? Nope. To them that idea is a good one. So which one of us is right? The suicide bomber or the person who values life above all else? Thoughts or ideas are just that until put into action at which time they can be judged right or wrong based on societal mores. Does that mean whomever is judging is judging correctly and who gets to decide who is the one judging?

 

[JoStories]

OK. I was referring to wrong dogma. I thought that was obvious. The context of 1 Corinthians 15:33 was that some believers were saying there is no resurrection. That was the wrong idea, according to the writer, I think. THEY say the writer meant to stay away from PEOPLE who say things that they do not agree with. I say it means to reject ideas that are not God's ideas about God, righteousness and truth.

Yet, again, who gets to decide who is wrong and who is right? You? Me? A third party? You use this verse as if it were the life line for you...saving you from a savage sea (no pun or offense intended). It is simply your view that this verse says what you believe. To another it may say something else entirely and who gets to say which of you is right?

 

[savagewind]

Yet, again, who gets to decide who is wrong and who is right? You? Me? A third party? You use this verse as if it were the life line for you...saving you from a savage sea (no pun or offense intended). It is simply your view that this verse says what you believe. To another it may say something else entirely and who gets to say which of you is right?

God "gets to say" which interpretation is right. The difference between them and me is I do not teach it for salvation. They do.

They teach, "this is what God has said". I say, "that doesn't make sense and doesn't coincide with other things"... that "God says".

 

[savagewind]

It is simply your view that this verse says what you believe. To another it may say something else entirely and who gets to say which of you is right?

Not quite right. I do not post about what I believe is right much. The reason? I might be wrong! I post about what I think it NOT right and I give reasons why I think so.

To teach that anyone is able to take you away from doing the will of God is counterproductive imo.

Instead of teaching that your love for God and God's love for you is the strongest thing ever, it teaches that evil is stronger. Why teach that?

Tell me please. Why is teaching that evil is stronger than love something to be defended? @JoStories @Deeje

 

[Deeje]

Why is teaching that evil is stronger than love something to be defended?

Because evil minus Jehovah's spirit, is stronger for the majority of people. Without the holy spirit, no one is a match for the devil and his deceptions. It is only God's spirit that makes us equal to the task. His spirit is the strongest force in the universe. But 'imagining' that you have it, and actually having it, are two entirely different things. Will God protect us from the devil's propaganda? NO!
We are told that if we want to believe our own "truth" (that is nothing more than a satanic delusion,) then God will not stop us....he will allow us to wallow in that delusion like a pig in mud. (2 Thess 2:6-12) Why? Because we love the lies more than we love the truth. If we hate the messenger, then we hate the message. Its that simple.

What of those who claim Jesus as their "Lord" come the judgment? Those who refuse to "feed" at the table of Jehovah along with their fellow believers (Matt 24:45) will be shocked at Jesus' response to their claims to be his disciples. "Few" will actually be accepted by him because he has "never" known most of them. (Matt 7:13, 14, 21-23) His words, not mine.

 

[savagewind]

Because evil minus Jehovah's spirit, is stronger for the majority of people. Without the holy spirit, no one is a match for the devil and his deceptions. It is only God's spirit that makes us equal to the task. His spirit is the strongest force in the universe. But 'imagining' that you have it, and actually having it, are two entirely different things. Will God protect us from the devil's propaganda? NO!
We are told that if we want to believe our own "truth" (that is nothing more than a satanic delusion,) then God will not stop us....he will allow us to wallow in that delusion like a pig in mud. (2 Thess 2:6-12) Why? Because we love the lies more than we love the truth. If we hate the messenger, then we hate the message. Its that simple.

What of those who claim Jesus as their "Lord" come the judgment? Those who refuse to "feed" at the table of Jehovah along with their fellow believers (Matt 24:45) will be shocked at Jesus' response to their claims to be his disciples. "Few" will actually be accepted by him because he has "never" known most of them. (Matt 7:13, 14, 21-23) His words, not mine.

I think you have the most amazing brain!

The governing body have been wrong before. They said that the superior authorities of Romans 13:1 were Jesus and Jehovah, but then they changed that to the secular authorities. They believed, taught and prepared for the holy men of old to be resurrected, but they were wrong. HOW DO YOU KNOW that they are now right about 1 Corinthians 15:33? I can see your fingers in your ears. If they are wrong, you are eating wrongness. I think to eat lies is a bad thing, not a good thing.