Another irrefutable proof that God created all things using mathematical induction. And a proof that The Bible is the word of God.

[YoursTrue]

The census lists are not consistent with each other.

Oh I see. I read about that and will get back to you.

 

[metis]

About miracles, while I didn't see them, I do believe they did take place.

That's your choice.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Oh I see. I read about that and will get back to you.

Lame excuses do not solve the problem. That is what Christian apologists will give you instead of dealing with the problem honestly.

 

[YoursTrue]

That's your choice.

OK, before I get into the subject about lineage, I'd like to ask a question. By the way, I have been reading a biography about Spinoza and find his quest for truth rather interesting. I haven't read much yet though. But find the history of his life and conditions in Amsterdam very interesting. (Live and learn -- hopefully.)
So -- back to belief about miracles et al. So I believe what the Bible says about miracles. Others do not. So then looking at the life of Jesus in particular as recorded in the Bible, what parts would someone who accepts him as a divine figure would be classified as true, if you get the gist of what I am saying. Let's say someone quotes everything about him except for the miracles.

 

[metis]

By the way, I have been reading a biography about Spinoza and find his quest for truth rather interesting. I haven't read much yet though. But find the history of his life and conditions in Amsterdam very interesting. (Live and learn -- hopefully.)

Ya, I visited the Portuguese Synagogue in Amsterdam, and it's quite a remarkable building-- made mostly out of Mohagany but with no electricity. Evening services are lit by myriads of candles. Beautiful building, but Spinoza was kicked out of it.

So then looking at the life of Jesus in particular as recorded in the Bible, what parts would someone who accepts him as a divine figure would be classified as true, if you get the gist of what I am saying. Let's say someone quotes everything about him except for the miracles.

There's a lot more than just miracles in the Gospel accounts, but my main interest and inspiration is from his basic teachings.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

EYE Evolution


-Trilobite ancestors from 544 million years ago don’t have eyes.


-The key to the puzzle, Darwin said, was to find eyes of intermediate complexity in the animal kingdom that would demonstrate a possible path from simple to sophisticated.



-Those intermediate forms have now been found. According to evolutionary biologists, it would have taken less than half a million years for the most rudimentary eye to evolve into a complex “camera” eye like ours.


-The first step is to evolve light-sensitive cells. This appears to be a trivial matter. Many single-celled organisms have eyespots made of light-sensitive pigments. Some can even swim towards or away from light. Such rudimentary light-sensing abilities confer an obvious survival advantage.

-The next step was for multicellular organisms to concentrate their light-sensitive cells into a single location. Patches of photosensitive cells were probably common long before the Cambrian, allowing early animals to detect light and sense what direction it was coming from. Such rudimentary visual organs are still used by jellyfish and flatworms and other primitive groups, and are clearly better than nothing.


-The simplest organisms with photosensitive patches are hydras – freshwater creatures related to jellyfish. They have no eyes but will contract into a ball when exposed to bright light.


-The next step is to evolve a small depression containing the light-sensitive cells. This makes it easier to discriminate the direction the light is coming from and hence sense movement. The deeper the pit, the sharper the discrimination.


-Further improvement can then be made by narrowing the opening of the pit so that light enters through a small aperture, like a pinhole camera. With this sort of equipment it becomes possible for the retina to resolve images – a vast improvement on previous models. Pinhole camera eyes, lacking a lens and cornea, are found in the nautilus today.



-The final big change is to evolve a lens. This probably started out as a protective layer of skin that grew over the opening. But it evolved into an optical instrument capable of focusing light on to the retina. Once that happened, the effectiveness of the eye as an imaging system went through the roof, from about 1 per cent to 100 per cent.


-Eyes of this kind are still found in cubozoans, highly mobile and venomous marine predators similar to jellyfish.

- Trilobites became the first active predators, able to seek out and chase down prey like no animal before. Unsurprisingly, their victims counter-evolved. Just a few million years later, eyes were everywhere and animals were more active and bristling with armour. This burst of evolutionary innovation is what we now know as the Cambrian Explosion.


-However, sight is not universal. Of 37 phyla of multicellular animals, only six have evolved it. But these six – including our own phylum, chordates, plus arthropods and molluscs – are the most abundant, widespread and successful animals on the planet.

You don't know what had eyes 544 million years ago. No matter what you claim.

What made the eagle be able to see from so far away? I know because one eagle gave birth to a baby that could see 1mm farther, so it was more successful in catching it's prey so it passed that improvement on.

 

[The Hammer]

You don't know what had eyes 544 million years ago. No matter what you claim

But we do. No matter what you claim, think or feel.

Edit: "The most ancient known fossil eyes are late Proterozoic in age, from the stem Aculiferan Clementechiton sonorensis.[2] Diverse eyes are known from the Burgess shale of the Middle Cambrian, and from the slightly older Emu Bay Shale.[3] Eyes vary in their visual acuity, the range of wavelengths they can detect, their sensitivity in no light, their ability to detect motion or to resolve objects, and whether they can discriminate colours."

Evolution of the eye - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"The Proterozoic is the third of the four geologic eons of Earth's history, spanning the time interval from 2500 to 538.8 Mya,[6]"

 

[TrueBeliever37]

But we do. No matter what you claim, think or feel.

Edit: "The most ancient known fossil eyes are late Proterozoic in age, from the stem Aculiferan Clementechiton sonorensis.[2] Diverse eyes are known from the Burgess shale of the Middle Cambrian, and from the slightly older Emu Bay Shale.[3] Eyes vary in their visual acuity, the range of wavelengths they can detect, their sensitivity in no light, their ability to detect motion or to resolve objects, and whether they can discriminate colours."

Evolution of the eye - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

"The Proterozoic is the third of the four geologic eons of Earth's history, spanning the time interval from 2500 to 538.8 Mya,[6]"

I couldn't see any eyes in those pictures from the Burgess shale or Emu Bay Shale. I've got a rock shaped like a triangle, what does that mean?

If evolution was true it would all be based on accidents that just happened to develop into miraculous things like vision, hearing, taste, smell, flying, etc.

 

[The Hammer]

I couldn't see any eyes in those pictures from the Burgess shale or Emu Bay Shale. I've got a rock shaped like a triangle, what does that mean?

You're silly

 

[The Hammer]

I find it funny when the God crowd uses the "I can't see it so it didn't exist argument for evolution evidence."

That must mean God doesn't exist because I haven't seen it with my eyes either. And neither has anyone else.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

I find it funny when the God crowd uses the "I can't see it so it didn't exist argument for evolution evidence."

That must mean God doesn't exist because I haven't seen it with my eyes either. And neither has anyone else.

I just looked at the pictures in the link you sent, and didn't see anything looking like fossilized eyes to me. Do you see them?

God is an invisible spirit, so of course you couldn't see him. Until he took on a body (The Messiah) to dwell in, that you could see.

 

[The Hammer]

I just looked at the pictures in the link you sent, and didn't see anything looking like fossilized eyes to me. Do you see them?

Glad your willing to admit a lack of reading comprehension.

 

[The Hammer]

God is an invisible spirit, so of course you couldn't see him. Until he took on a body (The Messiah) to dwell in, that you could see

I see my Gods everyday. No Messiah necessary.

 

[The Hammer]

I just looked at the pictures in the link you sent, and didn't see anything looking like fossilized eyes to me. Do you see them?

God is an invisible spirit, so of course you couldn't see him. Until he took on a body (The Messiah) to dwell in, that you could see.

Since you can't appear to read here is a photo.

https://www.science.org/content/article/looking-trilobite-eye

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Glad your willing to admit a lack of reading comprehension.

I asked if you saw pictures of fossilized eyes? I didn't say anything about your reading comprehension.

 

[The Hammer]

I asked if you saw pictures of fossilized eyes? I didn't say anything about your reading comprehension.

Post 2314 has a trilobite eye pic. Not sure what your obsession with pictures is. Is reading not enough info for you? Do you not trust the written word.

 

[The Hammer]

I didn't say anything about your reading comprehension

You didn't but you keep demonstrating your lack of it. Hence the picture insistence.

 

[TrueBeliever37]

Post 2314 has a trilobite eye pic. Not sure what your obsession with pictures is. Is reading not enough info for you? Do you not trust the written word.

What's wrong with me wanting to see a picture of the so called evidence? Trying to talk down to me isn't going to convince me of anything.

 

[The Hammer]

What's wrong with me wanting to see a picture of the so called evidence? Trying to talk down to me isn't going to convince me of anything.

Nothing I say would convince you anyways. I'm not trying to convince you. Just anyone else that reads this thread.

 

[Subduction Zone]

What's wrong with me wanting to see a picture of the so called evidence? Trying to talk down to me isn't going to convince me of anything.

Trilobite eyes were similar to the eyes of flies. They were compound eyes. Look at those pictures that were posted again.