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An Idea for Feminist Women to Help Change Gender Role Stereotypes

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Hubert Farnsworth, Sep 13, 2017.

  1. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    I would like to make a request to all feminist young women who believe that most gender roles are social constructs. Why don't you start approaching men instead of always waiting for the man to make the first move? It would save us men a lot of trouble if women made the first move, at least sometimes. By the way, I am *not* mocking feminists, in fact, I would say that I am a feminist myself as far as the traditional definition is concerned. I am just wondering why women who claim to believe that gender roles are social constructs and not biological in nature never seem to make the first move. It would help me out a lot if y'all would approach me first sometimes lol. Also, many women seem to act like a guy is a "creep" if he cold approaches a woman that he does not know. But why should this be the case, since it is basically the only way romantic relationships get started, since women never make the first move? Now, I understand that there are exceptions. However, the exceptions are rare. Supposedly the average attractive woman gets hit on several times per day, but as a man, I cannot remember the last time a woman went out of her way to express interest in me. But, I understand. Y'all are enjoying your female privilege (sorry, couldn't resist) of being able to get laid whenever you want and with no effort whatsoever.
     
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  2. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I kinda agree. It totally is a societal construct for men to be bold enough to approach and try to impress the females instead of the other way around. There may be bold women who do this but (and not trying to make a political statement here or whatever, just an observation) a lot of the "bold" women are often doing so in female to female pairings. Not so much the "heterosexual pair scene."

    Is it because of an instilled fear of being "not feminine" that holds women, even feminists stringently against gender roles, to be the submissive in the game of dating?
    Or are we just comfortable with the female privilege?

    Me? I'm socially awkward as hell, so I just assume that I'm always wrong in these scenarios.
     
    #2 SomeRandom, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
  3. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Kissed by Fire

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    Taking a look at any non Western culture quickly shows gender roles are socially constructed. And, of course, pairings even in the west have traditionally never been made based on attractions or either party approaching one another, but entirely pre-arranged by parents.

    I strongly suspect that may be the reason.
     
    #3 Shadow Wolf, Sep 13, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2017
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  4. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    LMAO!!! Truth, just straight up truth to that!!


    In which case, the OP has an amazing point. If we truly are against societal enforced gender roles, we should really encourage women in our midst to be bold and make the first move. In not just dating, but in life. Encourage the "non feminine" boldness.
     
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  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Kissed by Fire

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    We should. It's not often to find women who are the bold take charge types. In my experience, it seems there are three types; women who just accept the weaker/submissive expectations and graciously live with them, those who accept them and whine and cry about them and don't try to do anything to actually change them, and those who say **** shaving and are more tenacious and headstrong than most men. And plenty enough of them are heterosexual, and have wonderful boyfriends.
     
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  6. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    I encounter them all the time at work. Most of my managers are female and some are traditionally feminine, some are not. Most are your typical Aussie, somewhat functioning alcoholic, complete with the "I'm the boss at work so I'm the boss in life" mentality. Perhaps we are not as political as our American counterparts (actually, we aren't really.) But still, this is the type of role model that should be prominent for girls, imo.
     
  7. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    I approached my husband for dating and proposed to him. It can be done. :)
     
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  8. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    This reminds me of the feminist movement of the late sixties and early seventies, when stay-at-home moms became objects of ridicule. Feminism is about empowering women to be who they are and to be received and treated as equals when they do so. If it doesn't fit your personality to be the aggressor, whether male or female, there should be no pressure to imitate one just as there should be no pressure to burn a bra or get a job to conform to an alternative set of expectations.
     
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  9. Sartre

    Sartre Well-Known Member

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    Some soviet feminism took a similarly destructive line. Instead of making femininity as something acceptable or equal, women were likely to entirely reject what it meant to be feminine. On one hand, women became more outspoken and sexually free, however in many other instances it just lead to a toxic view on feminine behavior. This also contributed negatively to the perception of effeminate gay men.
     
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  10. Sartre

    Sartre Well-Known Member

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    My guess would be that they've been socialized to be uncomfortable with it.

    Most women I know are not fond of being hit on or catcalled, so perhaps they do not wish the same upon men.
     
  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Dream Brother
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    This sounds like whining over a personal problem.
     
  12. Sartre

    Sartre Well-Known Member

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    It is presented in an odd way which can be read as an attack, but I think the discussion question 'why do women act in accordance with gender roles?' could be useful.
     
  13. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    For information for anyone interested here is the basic popular debate between informed people on whether gender roles are nature or nurture. Its Prof. Pinker and Prof. Spelke debating publicly. Pinker presents first and represents the nature arguments. Spelke is the promoter of the nurture side.
     
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  14. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise

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    Of course, no one should be made into something they're not. But encouragement to break gender conformity is something feminists have been doing since they started.
     
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  15. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    I don't think it has anything to do with a fear of being "non-feminine." I do think that it has everything to do with being comfortable with playing the passive role in the game of seduction. After all, it is a heck of a lot less effort to sit back and choose between the various men who perform veritable circus acts to try to gain your favor and attention then it is to make an effort to approach the opposite sex.
     
  16. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    I would definitely watch the video if I ever had two consecutive hours to spare. I believe gender roles are a combination of nurture and nature. I do have a lot of respect for Pinker.
     
  17. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    I think women actually do like being hit on, if it is done correctly by a guy who has the nerve to hold a decent conversation. Problem is, approaching a hot chick who is a complete stranger is intimidating for most guys. But all that aside, nearly all relationships are started by the man. As I stated before, the average young woman who is at least average in attractiveness and spends a lot of time in public gets approached several times a day, whereas it happens to the average guy several times a year at most.
     
  18. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    Were any of my points invalid? The fact is, it is extremely rare for a woman to approach a man, even a woman who believes that gender roles are nonexistant. Shouldn't it logically follow that women who want to break gender stereotypes should begin approaching men instead of always waiting for men to make the first move? As far as "personal" issues are concerned, well, I certainly would not mind if more women approached me.
     
  19. Hubert Farnsworth

    Hubert Farnsworth Active Member

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    Why should alcoholics be role models for young girls, or for anyone?
     
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  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Dream Brother
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    Most women aren't out to break gender roles. Perhaps you should work on your anxiety.
     
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