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An example of mistranslations

IndigoChild

Member
This is a good example of the mistranslations of simple religious texts that I've been talking about. It's a concept most people don't seem to comprehend, which bothers me: anyone who's ever tried translating anything from, say, English to Spanish to French and back to English again with Babelfish or any other free online translator can plainly see how religious texts can be mistranslated.

Anyway, here's the examples...

The Lord's Prayer as most people know it, it was translated from Aramaic to Greek to Latin and then to English:


The Lord's Prayer in Late Modern English,

Book of Common Prayer, 1928

Our Father, who art in heaven,
hallowed be thy Name.
Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done,
on Earth as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day our daily bread.
And forgive us our trespasses,
as we forgive those who trespass against us.
And lead us not into temptation,
But deliver us from evil.
For thine is the kingdom, and the power,
and the glory, for ever and ever. Amen.

The Lord's Prayer, translated directly from the original Aramaic into English:





O cosmic Birther of all radiance and vibration!
Soften the ground of our being and
carve out a space within us where
Your Presence can abide.
Fill us with your creativity so that we
may be empowered to bear the fruit
of your mission.
Let each of our actions bear fruit in
accordance with our desire.
Endow us with the wisdom to produce
and share what each being needs to grow and flourish.
Untie the tangled threads of destiny that
bind us, as we release others from the
entanglement of past mistakes.
Do not let us be seduced by that which would
divert us from our true purpose, but illuminate
the opportunities of the present moment.
For you are the round and the fruitful vision,
the birth-power and fulfillment,
as all is gathered and made whole once again.


See what I mean? HUGE difference. If this can be done to The Lord's Prayer, why not to the Bible?


And I also don't understand why people don't see that, God's Word or not, man's translation errors give it huge mistakes? If the original Bible was God's directly dictated words, wouldn't He be angry that it got so messed up in the translation?

Kat
 

Green Gaia

Veteran Member
Weren't the original NT texts written in Greek? Besides, there are no "originals" left to compare what we have now to. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't read too much about the translations.
 

IndigoChild

Member
Maize said:
Weren't the original NT texts written in Greek? Besides, there are no "originals" left to compare what we have now to. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I haven't read too much about the translations.
I thought the Dead Sea Scrolls were in the original Aramaic. Besides, modern translation scholars take more time to get to know the languages they're translating than they tended to in the past, because in the past most "scholars" of foreign languages tended to think less of the cultues they studied anyway. Not always, of course, but they tended to.

And whether we have the originals or not, the point was that the Bible is in error from constant retranslations.

Kat
 

IndigoChild

Member
PS = Word of God or not, this shows that humans play a major role in the interpertation of God's words, by mistakes as well as purposeful mistranslations.

Kat
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
i think that ultimatley, they are both prayers to god, and he loves us for the effort

but moving the point away from the lords prayer to other verses, i agree the message can be completely smurfed-up

C_P
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
The "Lord's Prayer" comes from gMat 6:9-13.
There is a significant consensus that gMat was written in Koine Greek, not Aramaic.
There were no Christian text among the Dead Sea Scrolls.
References to an original manuscript are a baseless fraud.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
Deut. 32.8 said:
The "Lord's Prayer" comes from gMat 6:9-13.
There is a significant consensus that gMat was written in Koine Greek, not Aramaic.
There were no Christian text among the Dead Sea Scrolls.
References to an original manuscript are a baseless fraud.
yet i still feel like its a prayer to my god and to my saviour ;)
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
IC,

You can get two translators to translate the very same text quite differently. A Russian will translate a text from Russian to English and it will be QUITE STILTED, but more accurate. An English speaker can do the same, and the result would be FAR EASIER to read, but would not nearly be as accurate. The converse would ultimately be true.

The issues are the idioms and errata that a non-native speaker may completely miss. We currently have no native speakers of Koine Greek, nor do we have any native speakers of first century Aramaic. I found the second of the two translations as almost unintelligible. It was a purely mechanical translation that might have been done by a translation program.

Fortunately, God has given us his spirit to guide us into his word, no matter HOW it is translated.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
IndigoChild said:
And I also don't understand why people don't see that, God's Word or not, man's translation errors give it huge mistakes? If the original Bible was God's directly dictated words, wouldn't He be angry that it got so messed up in the translation?Kat
Hello, IC

There will never be a version that would be as reliable as the King James Version because publishers and bible societies now insist on copyrighting their translations to ensure that the profits return to them. According to copyright law, new bible versions can only be copyrighted as "derivative works". Words must be changed whether they need to be changed or not. New versions may update that one archaic word in eight thousand in the KJV, but they must change many other words, actually making it more difficult to read.

Source: Which Bible is God's Word? by Gail A. Riplinger
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
AV1611 said:
There will never be a version that would be as reliable as the King James Version because publishers and bible societies now insist on copyrighting their translations to ensure that the profits return to them. According to copyright law, new bible versions can only be copyrighted as "derivative works". Words must be changed whether they need to be changed or not.
That is embarrassingly illogical. There is no requirement that unnecessary changes be made. Therefore, an edition that did no more that correct KJV anomolies and innuendos, thereby making it more accurate with respect to some urtext, would constitute a derivative, as would texts based on better / more representative urtext. Your assertion is prima facie nonsense.
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Deut. 32.8 said:
That is embarrassingly illogical. There is no requirement that unnecessary changes be made. Therefore, an edition that did no more that correct KJV anomolies and innuendos, thereby making it more accurate with respect to some urtext, would constitute a derivative, as would texts based on better / more representative urtext. Your assertion is prima facie nonsense.
The marked difference in style between the text of the King James Version and its preface verifies that it was not written in the style of that period but in the style of the Greek text. The use of word order in the Greek to indicate emphasis is followed precisely in the sentence structure of the KJV.

New versions boast of their substitution of the word YOU for the archaic YE and THEE, but do not notice that the KJV uses the word YOU two thousand times. It only uses YE and THEE when needed, to distinguish between the Greek singular and plural; YE is plural, and THEE is singular. By using those particular renderings, the KJV gives an exact representation of the Greek word.
 
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