America the Terrorist

[Guitar's Cry]

Profound only to fairly superficial thinkers, would be my guess.

A little off-topic, but I feel that the Matrix is an adequate mythology for our times. Take that as you may.

 

[Revoltingest]

Leg humping does little to further dialogue as well .

I had one of these once....it was a good conversation starter.
[youtube]OrG94MG8Gjk[/youtube]
The Dog that humps your leg - YouTube

Regarding Mr Zinn....he has ideas which are best expressed by someone else.

 

[YmirGF]

A little off-topic, but I feel that the Matrix is an adequate mythology for our times. Take that as you may.

Indeed WailingOne, I quite enjoyed the Matrix. (I own the 10 DVD Collector's set and have watched it on at least 1/2 a dozen occasions.) It is an amusing little piece, but hardly worthy of the term "profound". Hollywood candy floss, perhaps... but profound? Seriously? It's like calling Kill Bill: Parts 1 and 2 - enlightening. (Thought great movies, they are hardly enlightening, lol.)

 

[YmirGF]

Regarding Mr Zinn....he has ideas which are best expressed by someone else.

I'm thinking Rosie O'Donnell or Charlie Sheen, myself.

 

[Sunstone]

Why would I ever want to read the filth that comes from a hater of American freedom? Rest assured, I will never read any of Zinn's works, for what's the incentive? I get enough liberal slant from the mass media and liars in Washington.

Thinking is a left wing plot.

 

[Keeper of the Secrets]

this whole distorted narrative isn't about learning, it is about trumpeting an agenda that has holes large enough to fly 767's through.

Well then, I guess I have made progress!

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Indeed WailingOne, I quite enjoyed the Matrix. (I own the 10 DVD Collector's set and have watched it on at least 1/2 a dozen occasions.) It is an amusing little piece, but hardly worthy of the term "profound". Hollywood candy floss, perhaps... but profound? Seriously?

Well, SeeingTheLightFromMyRearviewMirror, the symbolism is highly generalized which makes it fairly powerful. Profound? Well, that's subjective. But it certainly turned a lot of people on to philosophy regardless of how deep they got.

I personally saw some profundity in it, but I also saw it in the original Conan the Barbarian, so take that as you will as well.

To bring it back to the topic, I find the machines of modern warfare to be frightening, inhuman, and a waste of resources both natural and economic...much like most Hollywood flicks.

 

[YmirGF]

Well then, I guess I have made progress!

No doubt. The kiddies wading pool looks deep to small tykes. It's a start though, I'll give you that.

 

[YmirGF]

To bring it back to the topic, I find the machines of modern warfare to be frightening, inhuman, and a waste of resources both natural and economic...much like most Hollywood flicks.

Years ago, I conjectured that human animals could solves their disputes with elaborate Olympic class "dance off's", winner take all. Oddly, no one thought much of the idea. What would that prove, eh?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

Years ago, I conjectured that human animals could solves their disputes with elaborate Olympic class "dance off's", winner take all. Oddly, no one thought much of the idea. What would that prove, eh?

In Ethology, there are two types of dominance displays described: the one primarily of posturing, and the one where blood is shed. That seems to prove we enjoy our blood being spilled.

 

[Acim]

“An eye for an eye”, a phrase which we are all familiar with, became the demand of the public when terrorists attacked our “homeland” on 9/11; innocent blood must be paid for with innocent blood, terrorism to combat terrorism. The cry of our nation rose out, the consensus was clear; revenge would be the only acceptable course of action. America’s bombs would once again fall upon innocent people and terrorists alike.

I wish there was collective desire to discuss this rather than ignore it as hyperbole or not pertinent to the war we think we are fighting.

This goes two ways, and is point people (who want to make war) get on one side of debate (arguing that they should stop, while we try to put end to attack) and utterly deny on other side of conflict (we must never stop as long as they are attacking us. Never!)

Some people act like 9/11 was first time something like that happened in THAT war. That it was an unprovoked attack and first time radical militant (pseudo) jihadists had made an attack on America or American interests. I think many people (though not most) realize it was closer to 20th major attack event in ongoing war. A war that is clearly perpetuated by both sides with no end in sight, and no desire by other party, apparently, to see 'them' as human and worthy of any mutual respect.

Both sides have one thing in common for sure - they have lost ability to discern Innocence and therefore offer actual protection. The logic is now, the best offense equals best chance for defense, to those who side with us. And oh yeah, another thing in common with both sides, is 'you are either with us, or you are (most certainly) against us.'

“We shall make no distinction between terrorist and countries that harbor terrorists”, President Bush made this proclamation after declaring a “war on terrorism” (Zinn, 2005, p. 678). He kept his word. Bombing of Afghanistan began immediately; even though the terrorists were from Saudi Arabia, it was believed that Osama bin Laden was hiding there. Afghanistan had nothing of value; its destruction would have no effect on our economy or industry, whereas Saudi Arabia held valuable oil. After five months of bombing, and an estimated 4000 Afghan civilians dead, Osama was still missing. The bombings would continue.

Bombing afghanistan made (perfect) sense with logic of either you are with us or against us. Taliban, leaders in Afghanistan in 2001, were not with the US on escalated battle to ward off militant jihadists.

But how could we be attacked? Who would want to hurt our great nation? Why? Why? Why? Terrorism to combat terrorism, the events of 9/11 was the only acceptable course of action for so many peoples terrorized by the U.S. government.

The bigger the jihadist lie, the more susceptible minds will buy into it?

“Troops stationed in Saudi Arabia, site of the most holy of Moslem shrines; the ten years of sanctions against Iraq which had resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of children; the continued support of Israel’s occupation in Palestinian land, including billions in military aid” (Zinn, 2005, p. 681). Innocent blood must be paid for with innocent blood; the cries of nations rose out, the consensus was clear; revenge against America would be the only acceptable course of action; “An eye for an eye.”

And essentially signing of a suicide pact, made involuntarily with moderate Muslims caught in the crossfire.

How long will we stand for America to continue using our money and risking the lives of our sisters and brothers to fulfill its greedy passion to control every valuable resource around the globe? How many innocent peoples must suffer for this power hungry cause?

The interesting thing is clearly this battle is being fought within both sides. I can't speak to jihadist side of things, but it does appear as there is battle there from within. In America, this battle is clearly being fought from within, and the militant jihadist battle only emphasizes the point, that hunger for power and global capitalism has a limit that not all of the world is wanting to go along with.

Not all of the world wants to be 'bought off' so the Wal-Marts of the world can expand just a little bit further. That desire to restrict the tentacles of the Wal-Marts is occurring within US borders and is not an issue that "we the people" are ignoring. It is arguably more explosive and bitter on the inside, because scapegoating is less easy to make case for, though surprisingly in last 3 years it has become easier.

I recall from 2001 to around 2006, there was internal cries of patriotism occurring frequently, though not overwhelmingly so. But the whole "you are either with us or against us" occurred within borders of US, and it became clear that unless one found all things US was doing in war effort as perfectly acceptable, then you (a fellow US citizen) were essentially "giving aid and comfort to the enemy." But the surprising thing, especially on hindsight, is this didn't stick. It really didn't. And it is part of reason why Bush's party lost, since they tried to make 2008 all about 'war on terrorism' and how one side is essentially willing to comfort the enemy.

What did stick is scapegoating the Dems into position of global socialism, and a type of economic principle that is not only undermining entire world, but is undoing all the great things capitalism has accomplished in last 60 years. All the economic problems on this planet, can be tied back to left wing socialism, starting with US Dems. That has stuck, and has rallied the right far more than anything 'global terrorism' was attempting to do.

 

[Kathryn]

Why would I ever want to read the filth that comes from a hater of American freedom? Rest assured, I will never read any of Zinn's works, for what's the incentive? I get enough liberal slant from the mass media and liars in Washington.

Ha! This reminds me of Baldrick on Black Adder commenting on sex and violence in the theater:

"Why would I go there to watch it? I get enough of that at home."

 

[Kathryn]

My son's platoon leader got his head blown off delivering school supplies, donated by American citizens, to Iraqi children, and my son got to hear the last breath escape from his shattered throat as he held him and tried to take cover.

That's another side of history, if we're talking about perspectives.

 

[Twig pentagram]

My son's platoon leader got his head blown off delivering school supplies, donated by American citizens, to Iraqi children, and my son got to hear the last breath escape from his shattered throat as he held him and tried to take cover.

That's another side of history, if we're talking about perspectives.

War is hell.

 

[Keeper of the Secrets]

My son's platoon leader got his head blown off delivering school supplies, donated by American citizens, to Iraqi children, and my son got to hear the last breath escape from his shattered throat as he held him and tried to take cover.
quote]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, being played like pawns in a global game of corporate chess. If our corupt government hadn't said "okay, exxons and wal-marts we will get you some more money and resources" your son would never have been sent over there to try to make pittiful restitutions to those innocent citizens, and would never of had to have seen or experience what he did. You are right to be angry, but you need to know who your enemy is.

 

[Kathryn]

I'm not defending the ridiculous war in Iraq -but I don't believe that my son was over there for WalMart.

 

[YmirGF]

This is exactly what I am talking about. Our sons and daughters, brothers and sisters, being played like pawns in a global game of corporate chess. If our corupt government hadn't said "okay, exxons and wal-marts we will get you some more money and resources" your son would never have been sent over there to try to make pittiful restitutions to those innocent citizens, and would never of had to have seen or experience what he did. You are right to be angry, but you need to know who your enemy is.

I do tend to wonder why people are given to making inane comments like this. If the limp argument revolved around government defense contractors, I think the dog just might hunt, however, blaming wars on Exxon and Wal-Mart is about as ludicrous as arguments can get.

 

[Quagmire]

Thinking is a left wing plot.

It's true. Real Americans never think, we just......buy stuff.

 

[Acim]

If OBL is dead, and Taliban has been more or less defeated, what do you think is still reason why US is in ME, still fighting? What is the end game?

 

[Guitar's Cry]

It's true. Real Americans never think, we just......buy stuff.

And consume gas. Can't forget that.