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Alternative to Eternal Life

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
So I had an idea about a possible alternative to the popular notion of eternal life. Emerging scientific theories involve the plausibility of a multiverse (or omniverse) consisting of potentially infinite universes, or at least a great many number of them. Whether or not the evidence will end up panning out one or more of these theories is a different topic because, for the sake of this discussion, I think it suffices to say there's at least enough, if not more reason, to endorse an infinite universes theory over an eternal life hypothesis.

According to some of these theories, there could be an infinite number of "yous" existing in an infinite number of universe. You would essentially have an infinite number of lives. This presents itself to me as a sort of video game version of reality in which the aim is to play your life to its fullest even at the risk of losing it. It would only be the end of this particular stream of consciousness anyway while an infinite, or great many more, number of other streams are playing themselves out as well. Admittedly, this requires a certain loosening on our sense of "ego" but I find the "ego" tends to be mostly illusory anyway.

You feel bad about your day? Well, at least you made it this far on this life when in many universes you were never even born or never even survived your childhood. I'd say you're doing a pretty decent job with this life having made it this far. Even if you do lose this life, you have many more other lives playing themselves out in parallel universes. Perhaps in some you may end up reaching a technological checkpoint in which immortality is hypothetically possible anyway. So live life to the fullest even at the risk of losing it because you're never going to make it to the next level if your not willing to risk a life or two in the process.

You should play life as if it were a grand game. To some, this may seem to imply a haphazard amoral stance on things. I don't believe this is necessarily the case because many people find it to be incredibly fun to play the role of hero. Sure, some may prefer to play villain, but without them it wouldn't be much of a game at all. Besides we're probably all villains and heroes in different parallel universes. If we learned to not take life so darn seriously all the time we might not take our roles so seriously, resulting in less extremist behavior all around. Furthermore, the possibility of parallel universes really sinks the core of some exclusive religious traditions. I mean, although you may be Christian or Muslim or what-have-you in this version you're probably a Satanist or Atheist or whatever you consider to be your opposite in a different cosmic version of yourself, but I digress.

The idea of infinite lives opens up the potential of not taking ourselves so seriously all the time and learning to enjoy playing the game of life rather than trying to dominate it and dictate all the rules. It opens our imaginations to all the potential and probabilities of how our lives could have played out and what might still be possible in this particular stream of consciousness. So this is my video game theory of life. I find it to be quite comforting and liberating in its own way. I haven't quite thought it out entirely, but what does everybody else think?
 
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Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I guess I should have made an argument against eternal life. I know this notion can mean different things to different people, but I'll just go off the particular notion I've been conditioned with. I can imagine that after living for several thousand years (earth time) in an eternal paradise I'll begin to become curious about the prospect of pain. After knowing only bliss and happiness for so long, I hypothesize that I would actually want to experience pain and suffering. There would arise a longing in my being for a time long since forgotten in which I could embrace all the sensations of being to the fullest. I would long deeply for the game of life again, the ups and downs, the pains and pleasures, the lives and deaths, the moments of happiness and suffering together. I would eventually feel altogether unnatural in such a heavenly paradise and want to once more immerse myself in a more complete experience of life. Eternal contentment would eventually produce a sense of discontentment in my being, which could only be remedied by the direct experience of life again (of an infinite number of lives).
 

The Wizard

Active Member
So I had an idea about a possible alternative to the popular notion of eternal life. Emerging scientific theories involve the plausibility of a multiverse (or omniverse) consisting of potentially infinite universes, or at least a great many number of them. Whether or not the evidence will end up panning out one or more of these theories is a different topic because, for the sake of this discussion, I think it suffices to say there's at least enough, if not more reason, to endorse an infinite universes theory over an eternal life hypothesis.

According to some of these theories, there could be an infinite number of "yous" existing in an infinite number of universe. You would essentially have an infinite number of lives. This presents itself to me as a sort of video game version of reality in which the aim is to play your life to its fullest even at the risk of losing it. It would only be the end of this particular stream of consciousness anyway while an infinite, or great many more, number of other streams are playing themselves out as well. Admittedly, this requires a certain loosening on our sense of "ego" but I find the "ego" tends to be mostly illusory anyway.

You feel bad about your day? Well, at least you made it this far on this life when in many universes you were never even born or never even survived your childhood. I'd say you're doing a pretty decent job with this life having made it this far. Even if you do lose this life, you have many more other lives playing themselves out in parallel universes. Perhaps in some you may end up reaching a technological checkpoint in which immortality is hypothetically possible anyway. So live life to the fullest even at the risk of losing it because you're never going to make it to the next level if your not willing to risk a life or two in the process.

You should play life as if it were a grand game. To some, this may seem to imply a haphazard amoral stance on things. I don't believe this is necessarily the case because many people find it to be incredibly fun to play the role of hero. Sure, some may prefer to play villain, but without them it wouldn't be much of a game at all. Besides we're probably all villains and heroes in different parallel universes. If we learned to not take life so darn seriously all the time we might not take our roles so seriously, resulting in less extremist behavior all around. Furthermore, the possibility of parallel universes really sinks the core of some exclusive religious traditions. I mean, although you may be Christian or Muslim or what-have-you in this version you're probably a Satanist or Atheist or whatever you consider to be your opposite in a different cosmic version of yourself, but I digress.

The idea of infinite lives opens up the potential of not taking ourselves so seriously all the time and learning to enjoy playing the game of life rather than trying to dominate it and dictate all the rules. It opens our imaginations to all the potential and probabilities of how our lives could have played out and what might still be possible in this particular stream of consciousness. So this is my video game theory of life. I find it to be quite comforting and liberating in its own way. I haven't quite thought it out entirely, but what does everybody else think?
I've often traveled this direction of thought you express. And, I have to admit the whole multiverse scenerio is fun to discuss. But, do you believe time travel is possible? Or, that perhaps a million year old advanced super-civilization is capable of inventing or discovering it?

If so, then you might as well conclude an afterlife too. Becouse that would be one of the first things our future civilization would do for us. Well, at least for the people in which they figured deserved it....
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I've often traveled this direction of thought you express. And, I have to admit the whole multiverse scenerio is fun to discuss. But, do you believe time travel is possible? Or, that perhaps a million year old advanced super-civilization is capable of inventing or discovering it?

I believe that we are already traveling through time this very moment haha. Perhaps an advanced civilization could invent a sort of time hopping device, but every "time period" they traveled to would still constitute their own personal moment at the same "time" as the moment experienced by those in said "period". My main degree of measurement occurs within the moment of direct experience.

If so, then you might as well conclude an afterlife too. Becouse that would be one of the first things our future civilization would do for us. Well, at least for the people in which they figured deserved it....

Yes, perhaps some cloning process or digital re-imagining of consciousness could produce a worthwhile afterlife for some folks. Although, this scenario would only result within some parallel universes while a great deal of other universes would never reach such a technological checkpoint. On the other hand, those universes said to be lacking in this field may actually excel in some other area of inquiry such as spiritual awareness or universal consciousness. The game can be played many different ways and its up to us which level we seek to reach next.
 

The Wizard

Active Member
I believe that we are already traveling through time this very moment haha. Perhaps an advanced civilization could invent a sort of time hopping device, but every "time period" they traveled to would still constitute their own personal moment at the same "time" as the moment experienced by those in said "period". My main degree of measurement occurs within the moment of direct experience.



Yes, perhaps some cloning process or digital re-imagining of consciousness could produce a worthwhile afterlife for some folks. Although, this scenario would only result within some parallel universes while a great deal of other universes would never reach such a technological checkpoint. On the other hand, those universes said to be lacking in this field may actually excel in some other area of inquiry such as spiritual awareness or universal consciousness. The game can be played many different ways and its up to us which level we seek to reach next.
I agree. The game could be played many different ways. Time travel is the last scenerio I was pondering in concern to the afterlife/eternal life department... I'd say you got the right idea when you mention digital re-imaging....
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't understand why people even want "eternal life" in the sense that is usually discussed. I scrunch my nose in disgust at the very idea of it. If I had eternal life, I would seriously kill myself.

...

Wait a sec...
 

Straw Dog

Well-Known Member
I think this is called quantum immortality, and is flawed for the following reason: none of the others are me.

We obviously don't have enough evidence to comment with any real degree of definitiveness on how parallel universes would exist and interact with one another. Maybe on the quantum level our mental processes involve a crossing over of sorts with other parallel universes. Our consciousness could overlap with the other streams of consciousness we may have in our parallel selves. In this way, those other variations may still be us on a quantum level. Perhaps our experience of "free will" involves self-reflection on what we have already done in all possible parallel lives.
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
So I had an idea about a possible alternative to the popular notion of eternal life. Emerging scientific theories involve the plausibility of a multiverse (or omniverse) consisting of potentially infinite universes, or at least a great many number of them. Whether or not the evidence will end up panning out one or more of these theories is a different topic because, for the sake of this discussion, I think it suffices to say there's at least enough, if not more reason, to endorse an infinite universes theory over an eternal life hypothesis.

According to some of these theories, there could be an infinite number of "yous" existing in an infinite number of universe. You would essentially have an infinite number of lives. This presents itself to me as a sort of video game version of reality in which the aim is to play your life to its fullest even at the risk of losing it. It would only be the end of this particular stream of consciousness anyway while an infinite, or great many more, number of other streams are playing themselves out as well. Admittedly, this requires a certain loosening on our sense of "ego" but I find the "ego" tends to be mostly illusory anyway.

You feel bad about your day? Well, at least you made it this far on this life when in many universes you were never even born or never even survived your childhood. I'd say you're doing a pretty decent job with this life having made it this far. Even if you do lose this life, you have many more other lives playing themselves out in parallel universes. Perhaps in some you may end up reaching a technological checkpoint in which immortality is hypothetically possible anyway. So live life to the fullest even at the risk of losing it because you're never going to make it to the next level if your not willing to risk a life or two in the process.

You should play life as if it were a grand game. To some, this may seem to imply a haphazard amoral stance on things. I don't believe this is necessarily the case because many people find it to be incredibly fun to play the role of hero. Sure, some may prefer to play villain, but without them it wouldn't be much of a game at all. Besides we're probably all villains and heroes in different parallel universes. If we learned to not take life so darn seriously all the time we might not take our roles so seriously, resulting in less extremist behavior all around. Furthermore, the possibility of parallel universes really sinks the core of some exclusive religious traditions. I mean, although you may be Christian or Muslim or what-have-you in this version you're probably a Satanist or Atheist or whatever you consider to be your opposite in a different cosmic version of yourself, but I digress.

The idea of infinite lives opens up the potential of not taking ourselves so seriously all the time and learning to enjoy playing the game of life rather than trying to dominate it and dictate all the rules. It opens our imaginations to all the potential and probabilities of how our lives could have played out and what might still be possible in this particular stream of consciousness. So this is my video game theory of life. I find it to be quite comforting and liberating in its own way. I haven't quite thought it out entirely, but what does everybody else think?

To be entirely fair, the vast majority of this doesn't even make any kind of logical sense.

How could "you" be defined such that there were different "yous" in different universes? If the person isn't me, doesn't have my qualities--including my faith, my place in the universe, etc--then how can they be me? The only way I see for that to make sense is with some sort of essential nature, which is just a soul, which turns back into notions of eternalism.

Further, infinite universe theories are stupid. Any physicist who is talking about infinite universes is either dumbing down the actual mathematics so that the rest of us can understand them or hopping on a sensationalist bandwagon for a little fame. Infinity cannot exist in the physical universe without utterly devastating EVERY standing physical model.

Plus second law of themodynamics, dude.
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
You feel bad about your day? Well, at least you made it this far on this life when in many universes you were never even born or never even survived your childhood. I'd say you're doing a pretty decent job with this life having made it this far. Even if you do lose this life, you have many more other lives playing themselves out in parallel universes. Perhaps in some you may end up reaching a technological checkpoint in which immortality is hypothetically possible anyway.

It also means there is likely an infinite number of lives where you are doing better.
So... :rolleyes:
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
Further, infinite universe theories are stupid. Any physicist who is talking about infinite universes is either dumbing down the actual mathematics so that the rest of us can understand them or hopping on a sensationalist bandwagon for a little fame. Infinity cannot exist in the physical universe without utterly devastating EVERY standing physical model.
Most models of the universe work fine with an uncountable number of universes. What's the problem?
 

wmjbyatt

Lunatic from birth
Most models of the universe work fine with an uncountable number of universes. What's the problem?

The problem is the language. Physicality is undefined if you escape the confines of our spatio-temporal system. If you're within that same spatio-temporal system, calling something else another "universe" is a nasty and sensationalist appropriation of the word. Plus "uncountable infinity" only has a meaning in a mathematical (or philosophical context). It has no material sense, and is thus useless in physics.
 

PolyHedral

Superabacus Mystic
The problem is the language. Physicality is undefined if you escape the confines of our spatio-temporal system. If you're within that same spatio-temporal system, calling something else another "universe" is a nasty and sensationalist appropriation of the word. Plus "uncountable infinity" only has a meaning in a mathematical (or philosophical context). It has no material sense, and is thus useless in physics.
Physics ran off of "material use" some time ago. The universe is a lot weirder than humans are aware of, and you need mathematics to deal with it.
 

St Giordano Bruno

Well-Known Member
Brian Greene has a rather nice non religious alternative to eternal life in his book the hidden reality . He hypothesises there are a plethora of universes with every possible versions of ourselves which is physically possible, even dead versions

So I can just imagine the singer, Whitney Houston who died just recently. In my world and your world she is dead but in her realm that is that another hidden reality that she cannot be aware of. If fact she is only aware or realities where she does exits such as her daughter arriving in the nick of time to save her from drowning in the bath, or never getting into the bath in the first place or she could find herself coming to with major brain damage, unable to speak let alone sing and be living a life of total misery in some nursing home, not nice. The world of the dead Whitney is another hidden reality she cannot be aware of.
 
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St Giordano Bruno

Well-Known Member
I prefer eternal death. I can't understand why some people have difficulty accepting it.

Very comforting, I like to sleep in, makes suicide all the more appealing especially in my darker moments in my late 20's. But the niggling doubt there may be something made me put down that gun.
 

bigNavySeal

Member
I guess I should have made an argument against eternal life. I know this notion can mean different things to different people, but I'll just go off the particular notion I've been conditioned with. I can imagine that after living for several thousand years (earth time) in an eternal paradise I'll begin to become curious about the prospect of pain. After knowing only bliss and happiness for so long, I hypothesize that I would actually want to experience pain and suffering. There would arise a longing in my being for a time long since forgotten in which I could embrace all the sensations of being to the fullest. I would long deeply for the game of life again, the ups and downs, the pains and pleasures, the lives and deaths, the moments of happiness and suffering together. I would eventually feel altogether unnatural in such a heavenly paradise and want to once more immerse myself in a more complete experience of life. Eternal contentment would eventually produce a sense of discontentment in my being, which could only be remedied by the direct experience of life again (of an infinite number of lives).

One life is more than enough for me, thank you very much. The thought of living and dying and living again (e.g. in parallel universes similar as we experience it in this life) seems utterly depressing to me, the whole reincarnation thing anyways... I've struggled enough in my life and although I certainly have my good moments too I like the prospect of an ultimate good place in the end without ANY form of suffering aka paradise. The thought of never again having to suffer, very much appeals to me and I can imagine it to exist. Quite obviously it's not a similar experience/environment as our current life. It will be something incredibly mysterious, fascinating, joyful and surreal; pure awe (it has to be). It can't be compared or experienced in this life, it will be a completely absolute and pure state of being where only good prevails and none of your/our current "more negative" emotions/experiences will ever be experienced. Either that or just plain inconsequential eternal oblivion after life. Please not another "this life"...
 
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St Giordano Bruno

Well-Known Member
I am of course referring to a natural death. :)
I am stating death is a very appealing option because in effect if this is the only life we ever live then I have to consider I have been through an identical state before I was born and it did not disturb me for one second because there was not even any sensation of darkness in spite of us imagining it as a world of eternal darkness which it definitely isn't. So it is irrational to be afraid of death because you are afraid of the dark because there is no darkness, just non existence you can never possibly be aware of.
 
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