All Men are Created Equal

[Thief]

NOT

look around you

 

[The Reverend Bob]

Depends on what we mean by "equal"

 

[Thief]

look in the mirror.....compare to your fellowman

or perhaps you have a standard?

 

[Stevicus]

NOT

look around you

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed, by their Creator, with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.

Looking at it in context, it appears to refer to our status of having unalienable rights, such as life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Every human being, regardless of anything else in their lives, is born with those and other rights.

If there really is some sort of Creator, then He didn't appear to create any actual government to restrict anyone's rights, so when humans were in a state of nature, they could do whatever they wanted - not because they had the "right," but because there was no government to tell them they couldn't. But after governments were established and were around long enough to get deep into everyone's backside, then people started to become more cognizant of their rights and more assertive in pursuing those rights.

"All men are created equal" obviously doesn't mean equal abilities or equal strength or anything of that nature. But it clearly implies that we are born free and equal before the law.

At least, that's what they tell us...

Whether or not they actually practice what they preach, that's another story.

 

[dybmh]

I vote no.

Equal to me means equal in all ways.

Same form
Same function
Same value

Clearly they are not the same form.
They are at least the same value.
Do they have the same function?

 

[sun rise]

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal,

Equal does not mean the same nor does it mean having the same intelligence and the same talents. To me it means that our essence is the same.

 

[Altfish]

'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others.'

George Orwell, Animal Farm

 

[qaz]

obviously humans never were born equal. that was just common sense in more ancient and less sentimental times.

 

[Augustus]

Of course they are not, it is one of the most patently untrue things imaginable. Nature has no concern for equality or inalienable rights.

It is a metaphorical truth though, something which is not factually true yet benefits us to act as if it were true. Most religious and ideological tenets fall into this category.

Human society requires tacit acceptance of numerous metaphorical truths in order to function effectively.

 

[syo]

All people are equal before the fact that they need food. However, all people have their distinct characteristics about their diets. I am lactose intolerant for example.

 

[qaz]

Of course they are not, it is one of the most patently untrue things imaginable. Nature has no concern for equality or inalienable rights.

It is a metaphorical truth though, something which is not factually true yet benefits us to act as if it were true. Most religious and ideological tenets fall into this category.

Human society requires tacit acceptance of numerous metaphorical truths in order to function effectively.

"metaphorical truths"
there is no such thing. call it like it is: an irrational belief held and propagandized by those taking some advantages from it (basically the mediocre individuals).
we are not born equal, period. therefore we have not the same value, period. therefore we are not born with equal rights, period.

 

[Samana Johann]

Once a young Brahmin, asked: "Why do some people live a long life, but others die young? Why are some people born poor, but others born rich?", Here the accounts for a person's fortune or misfortune. Householder Thief, and that the rest, talks on equal, are cheats to win fools, he already knows.

 

[Augustus]

"metaphorical truths"
there is no such thing. call it like it is: an irrational belief held and propagandized by those taking some advantages from it (basically the mediocre individuals).
we are not born equal, period. therefore we have not the same value, period. therefore we are not born with equal rights, period.

You are confusing you being ignorant of something for that thing not existing.

Unless you are saying there are no such things as laws, constitutions, ideologies, religions, etc. then metaphorical truths certainly exist.

I'm also going to guarantee you have taken advantage of them during your lifetime, as to whether or not that makes you mediocre I'll leave for you to decide.

 

[qaz]

You are confusing you being ignorant of something for that thing not existing.

Unless you are saying there are no such things as laws, constitutions, ideologies, religions, etc. then metaphorical truths certainly exist.

i never said they don't exist, i said they exist as irrational beliefs and delusions - useful or not, it's an whole different issue. e.g. santa doesnt exist, but the belief of santa exists , among children. you are confusing the existence of a belief/convention with the existence of its content in reality.
is it still hard to grasp for you? i can say it with simpler words if you like.

I'm also going to guarantee you have taken advantage of them during your lifetime, as to whether or not that makes you mediocre I'll leave for you to decide.

worthless ad hominem argument. we are talking about rights, not some users on an online board.

 

[Augustus]

i never said they don't exist, i said they exist as irrational beliefs and delusions - useful or not, it's an whole different issue. e.g. santa doesnt exist, but the belief of santa exists , among children. you are confusing the existence of a belief/convention with the existence of its content in reality.
is it still hard to grasp for you? i can say it with simpler words if you like.

"metaphorical truths" there is no such thing.

Then I thank you for the outstanding observation that a term defined as 'something which is not factually true yet benefits us to act as if it were true', relates to something that isn't actually true.

Anyway, human survival, and yours, depends on "irrationality and delusions". I assume you don't actually believe you have transcended such 'mediocrity'?

worthless ad hominem argument. we are talking about rights, not some users on an online board.

Continuing the long RF trend whereby 90%+ of people calling logical fallacies can't actually use them correctly

Would be good if you stuck to your simpler words my friend

 

[qaz]

"metaphorical truths" there is no such thing.

Then I thank you for the outstanding observation that a term defined as 'something which is not factually true yet benefits us to act as if it were true', relates to something that isn't actually true.

yes, that was basically my point when i said "call it like it is". you see, when someone calls eating **** "metaphorical cake tasting", the
unmistakable stench of a religious dogma can be easily detected. equality indeed is the most powerful contemporary dogma nowadays, and led to abominations like these:

Oxford University set to feminise curriculum by requesting inclusion of women on reading lists

Oxford Uni must decolonise its campus and curriculum, say students | Students | The Guardian

so, that is not a "metaphorical truth", it is just a lie. maybe a "socially" useful lie, but still a lie.

Anyway, human survival depends on "irrationality and delusions".

that is some very avoidable sociological theory of yours, not a fact.

Continuing the long RF trend whereby 90%+ of people calling logical fallacies can't actually use them correctly

exactly your case, technically it's called quaternio terminorum. you illegitimately duplicated the meaning of the word "existence" (i used the verbal form, but it doesn't change anything) in :
a. existence of the right
b. existrnce of the belief in a right

anyway , if you have problems with your native language, as it seems, we can speak in italian or french. for me it would be even better.

 

[bobhikes]

NOT

look around you

Equal in Total but separate in specialties.

 

[shunyadragon]

NOT

look around you

No line drawn. I could not answer the question based on the choices, I will comment more in the future.

 

[Augustus]

yes, that was basically my point when i said "call it like it is". you see, when someone calls eating **** "metaphorical cake tasting", the
unmistakable stench of a religious dogma can be easily detected.

I was calling it like it is: something which is not factually true yet benefits a group if they act as if it were true.

equality indeed is the most powerful contemporary dogma nowadays, and led to abominations like these:

Oxford University set to feminise curriculum by requesting inclusion of women on reading lists

Oxford Uni must decolonise its campus and curriculum, say students | Students | The Guardian

so, that is not a "metaphorical truth", it is just a lie. maybe a "socially" useful lie, but still a lie.

Only in the sense that laws are lies, constitutions are lies, contracts are lies, and whatever ideological beliefs you hold are lies (and, of course, delusions).

that is some very avoidable sociological theory of yours, not a fact.

It's a description of basic human cognition, not an 'avoidable sociological theory'.

The brain evolved for survival (as part of a group), not the dispassionate and value free contemplation of objective truth. Everything from our vision to how we form complex, modern societies relies on some degree of 'irrationality and delusion' in the sense of it not being 'objectively true'.

It is pretty naive to consider acting on anything that doesn't accurately reflect an objective reality to be 'irrational and delusional' though.

exactly your case, technically it's called quaternio terminorum. you illegitimately duplicated the meaning of the word "existence" (i used the verbal form, but it doesn't change anything) in :
a. existence of the right
b. existrnce of the belief in a right

Good to see ad hom isn't the only term you can't use properly.

anyway , if you have problems with your native language, as it seems, we can speak in italian or french. for me it would be even better.

Give the man a coconut.

 

[Thief]

Whether or not they actually practice what they preach, that's another story.

and there is the flip of the coin.....

the reality