Aliens and religious beliefs.

[TagliatelliMonster]

IThe fact that oak trees and humans have so much shared genes strongly suggests that life may never have originated on earth at all

That doesn't follow at all.

Shared genes don't point to extra-terrestial originals of life at all.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Quite possibly, yes. But then this would imply several things that aren't really supported by evidence and logic. Most importantly being that a lone single celled life form was the origin of all life on the planet and the vast amounts of DNA with no known purpose arose from it (at least indirectly). It seems a simpler explanation that just as you envision there was "an original life form" but it landed here from, some distant place where all that wasted DNA was necessary to survival.

Again this doesn't follow.

There's no need at all to appeal to "aliens" to explain "junk DNA".
Evolution can account for it just fine.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Because life arose here, and here is made of the same stuff as the rest of the universe, it is extremely likely that life has arisen not just once but many, many times on the trillions of planets out there. But why we don't encounter them is actually pretty easy to explain -- them getting here (or us getting there) may very well be really close to impossible.

Think about it -- what has been the cost of getting individuals particles (not whole atoms, only parts of them) up to nearly the speed of light at the Large Hadron Collider? Immense. Bloody immense. Now think how costly it would be to get not only atoms, but entire organisms, made of billions and trillions of atoms -- along with their ships, and life-sustaining equipment, fuel and nourishment -- going fast enough to get around the universe?

THAT seems really, really unlikely to me.

Indeed.

Unless things like "warp drive" or "wormholes" are actually possible in reality, I don't see any species successfully traveling across the galaxy without having to travel for 100+ generations.
And considering what kind of accommodation it would require for a spaceship to travel for thousands of years where the "people" who arrive on location will be the great, great, great, great,..........., great great grandchildren of those that initially started the mission.... I'ld consider that to be quite unfeasible as well.

So..... unless physicists succeed in making Star Trek type science fiction a reality, it's not going to happen.

 

[ChristineM]

Kids ask "what are mosquitos for?" They think that God made everything for our benefit (egocentric....it's all about us).

If the universe is there to hold life, and it only holds life in one tiny part, it seems that it is useless (for our purposes). But, the universe might not have been created for us. Maybe the goal isn't to have a place for life to exist (or a place for life to start to exist)? Maybe the universe merely exists, and the rest (contains life) is coincidental?

By the way....we are made of meat. Mosquitos drink blood in living creatures. Could it be that we were made to be food for mosquitos?

Funnily enough,the mosquito is one of my evidences againt a caring God. Why make humans as the pinnacle of creation then make a tiny mosquito that can kill them.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Funnily enough,the mosquito is one of my evidences againt a caring God. Why make humans as the pinnacle of creation then make a tiny mosquito that can kill them.

They can only kill those that don't have enough "faith" though.
As it says in the bible, a "true believer" can drink poison and walk away unharmed.

 

[Polymath257]

I agree.



If they are intelligent, I would assume that they are curious. So they have probably asked the big metaphysical questions. So I expect that some of them are something like deists.

That's where I would disagree. The notion of God seems to be related to a hierarchical societal structure with a single leader on top. I would suspect that a race from a different planet would likely have very different biology and thereby very different social structures, probably leading to different defaults on how such metaphysical questions play out

I would expect another race to have very similar physics, probably similar basic mathematics, but I would be very surprised if it has the same religion or even the same metaphysics.

I certainly believe that it's possible. I have no way of actually knowing if that possibility is realized anywhere besides here.

They don't, really. My views on the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe is pretty much a strictly scientific question.

Yep. Other intelligent life seems possible, but who knows? We may be the first. And, with only a few thousand years under our belt, the likelihood of overlap may well be low, even if other civilizations exist at various points of time.

 

[ChristineM]

They can only kill those that don't have enough "faith" though.
As it says in the bible, a "true believer" can drink poison and walk away unharmed.

I wouldn't stake my life on bronze age stories.

 

[Polymath257]

One would think that it would take a long time to travel lightyears. But, because time dilates at high speeds, it wouldn't take long for the traveler.

Perhaps a spaceship could be constructed to pick up bits of matter in space as it goes? That way, it wouldn't take much fuel.

The energy requirements scale with the amount of time dilation.

For a time dilation of 1/2, you need an energy equivalent of the *mass* going at that speed. That means the equivalent of the Hiroshima bomb for each *gram*.

If you want a time dilation of 1/1000, you will need 999 *times* the energy for each bit of mass. So, for each gram, you will need the energy equivalent of a large hydrogen bomb.

Even with matter-antimatter, you would need half a kilogram of anti-matter for each *gram* of mass you want to bring up to speed (and, a half kilogram of matter to interact with it) if you want that 1/1000 time dilation.

So, if you want the journey to 'not take long for the traveler', you will want a very small traveler and a HUGE amount of energy. And, don't forget that you need to decelerate at the other end of the journey.

 

[Polymath257]

That doesn't follow at all.

Shared genes don't point to extra-terrestial originals of life at all.

In fact, I would suggest the opposite.

 

[Father Heathen]

There is no self-appointed middleman with my God.

You presume to speak on his behalf, and use a book as a stand-in. Rather idolatrous.

 

[Father Heathen]

Pure love doesn't translate into "whatever I want".

I never suggested that it did, so stuff that back up from where you pulled it from.

Pure logic in reference to compassion doesn't mean "close your eyes and believe that the decisions of the heart is irrelevant".

The two balance each other out.

Thinking critically isn't understood that your critical thinking is always right.

Far more consistently correct than arbitrary superstitions.

 

[cladking]

That doesn't follow at all.

Shared genes don't point to extra-terrestial originals of life at all.

It seems to when so many genes have no known function. How can oaks and humans share so much DNA when most of it seems unnecessary to life on earth. Their common ancestor must have been a very simple creature so why did it have so much human/ oak DNA? Why was this needed before anything had even "evolved"?

 

[cladking]

“In the year 22, of the third month of the winter, sixth hour of the day […], the scribes of the House of Life found that there was a circle of fire coming from the sky. It had no head. From its mouth came a foul odour. Its body was one rod long and one rod wide and it was noiseless.



“And their hearts became terrified and confused, and they fell upon their bellies. They reported to the Pharaoh. His Majesty [ordered that] the scrolls [located] in the House of Life be consulted. His Majesty meditated on all these events which were now going on.



“After few days had gone by, these things became more numerous in the sky than ever. They shined in the sky more than the brightness of the sun, and extended to the four supports of the heaven. Dominated in the sky was the station of these five circles.



The army of the Pharaoh looked on with him in their midst. It was after the evening meal when these five circles ascended higher in the sky towards the south. Fishes and birds fell down from the sky.



“A marvel never before known since the foundation of this land. And Pharaoh caused incense to be brought to make peace with Earth […] and what happened was ordered to be written in the Annals of the House of Life so that it be remembered for ever.”

UFOs in ancient Egypt? The Mystery of the Tulli Papyrus

I don't take this too seriously because I've never heard an expert opinion on its accuracy or veracity. It comes from a time in Egypt's history that expert opinion might be right and there's little reason to doubt it unlike expert opinion on great pyramids which is utterly wrong.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Again this doesn't follow.

There's no need at all to appeal to "aliens" to explain "junk DNA".
Evolution can account for it just fine.

Oh, I can do that. Have you ever been on a long road trip? We are talking at least two days. Have you seen what the back seat looks like after a while? Arby's wrappers, White Castle boxes, KFC bones, used cond . . . oops, family friendly family friendly (great road trip). Any way it gets to be quite a mess. You have to get rid of that mess somehow. Our junk DNA may be merely due to aliens "emptying out the back seat".

Now where do I apply for my Nobel Prize?

 

[Triumph]

When I was a theist, I did not believe in aliens, as there were no mention of them in the Bible.
Tonight, I was looking up to the night sky as a possible deist, and for the first time I got excited at the thought that there were other life forms in the vast vast cosmos. From a deist POV, belief in the possibilities of aliens is completely reasonable I think.
I wonder if intelligent aliens have a conception of God(s).
Do you believe that intelligent life forms exist beyond Earth? How does your religious/spiritual beliefs affect your view on aliens?

I believe they exist because when in our 20's, a friend and I saw 4 tubular aircraft in a straight line hovering over a valley in the country. They were about the length of 2 buses each. They were a dull metallic gray color in the shape of a tic tac, no windows. They started moving slowly, completely silent, to the left then literally disappeared. It was shocking to see that. No country on Earth had that technology as far as I am aware. I applaud the intelligence of humans if that is human technology we witnessed.

 

[Triumph]

“In the year 22, of the third month of the winter, sixth hour of the day […], the scribes of the House of Life found that there was a circle of fire coming from the sky. It had no head. From its mouth came a foul odour. Its body was one rod long and one rod wide and it was noiseless.

Thanks for the post, that is interesting. I wonder if the odour is a chemical spray .or a release of used elements of their energy source

“And their hearts became terrified and confused, and they fell upon their bellies. They reported to the Pharaoh. His Majesty [ordered that] the scrolls [located] in the House of Life be consulted. His Majesty meditated on all these events which were now going on.



“After few days had gone by, these things became more numerous in the sky than ever. They shined in the sky more than the brightness of the sun, and extended to the four supports of the heaven. Dominated in the sky was the station of these five circles.



The army of the Pharaoh looked on with him in their midst. It was after the evening meal when these five circles ascended higher in the sky towards the south. Fishes and birds fell down from the sky.



“A marvel never before known since the foundation of this land. And Pharaoh caused incense to be brought to make peace with Earth […] and what happened was ordered to be written in the Annals of the House of Life so that it be remembered for ever.”

UFOs in ancient Egypt? The Mystery of the Tulli Papyrus

I don't take this too seriously because I've never heard an expert opinion on its accuracy or veracity. It comes from a time in Egypt's history that expert opinion might be right and there's little reason to doubt it unlike expert opinion on great pyramids which is utterly wrong.

About the smell they perceived from the ufo's, Ionizing radiation itself doesn’t have any particular odor, but people who have been exposed to high whole body doses have sometimes reported smelling various odors and tasting odd tastes (metallic taste) - possibly due either to a direct effect on primary olfactory receptor neurons, or to an effect on the central nervous system.

With radiation therapy affecting the olfactory mucosa people pretty often report smelling a pungent odor consistent with ozone - that could be due to actual production of ozone. Odd sensations of smell have been reported by people having radiation therapy for various primary brain tumors as well.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I believe they exist because when in our 20's, a friend and I saw 4 tubular aircraft in a straight line hovering over a valley in the country. They were about the length of 2 buses each. They were a dull metallic gray color in the shape of a tic tac, no windows. They started moving slowly, completely silent, to the left then literally disappeared. It was shocking to see that. No country on Earth had that technology as far as I am aware. I applaud the intelligence of humans if that is human technology we witnessed.

Or you both possibly misinterpreted what you saw. That can happen quite often. For example to know their sizes you would have to be rather close to them. Or else see something right next to them that allowed you to compare size. How close were you? I would need to speak to an expert, but I doubt if one's eye changes its focal distance at all for objects over 100 feet away. Second, memories of this sort are very malleable when first formed. If you and your friend saw it together you likely discussed it immediately. That you both "remember" the same thing would not be evidence in such a case. And third, your friend may remember this differently. The only proper way to find out would be for a third party to interview both of you. You could not have contacted your friend ahead of time since every time that we remember something our mind edits the memory a bit for us. If you contacted him first you could unconsciously convince him to go along with your current memory.

When events are properly recorded and then independently analyzed they are almost always shown to be mundane events.

 

[Triumph]

I'm undecided if there are intelligent life forms beyond earth.
But I do hope there are friendly intelligent extra terrestrials who develop a means to reach out to us.

In my opinion.

I believe that intelligent life forms from other planets have contacted each other long before they found our tiny planet in this little solar system. I believe they have formed a peace alliance to not destroy life they find in the universe and explore space to add to their knowledge of science. They have not destroyed the life on Earth and I believe they could. They see we destroy ourselves in our own world war against each other.

Before the first atomic bomb was dropped on Japan what is called the " Battle of LA " happened. It was a one sided battle. The UFO made no aggressive attack on us but we tried to shoot them out of the sky with everything we had. Nothing hit the craft and it left without harming anyone. Humans injured were injured by humans.
The message they were giving is be merciful because there are those more powerful in the universe that offer mercy to humans. Obviously, in war people do not want to be merciful, they want war to end to save their people by making the enemy stop killing by killing them.
"Aliens" do not want war, they want peace in the universe. Peace is achieved by being peaceful.

 

[Triumph]

Or you both possibly misinterpreted what you saw. That can happen quite often. For example to know their sizes you would have to be rather close to them. Or else see something right next to them that allowed you to compare size. How close were you? I would need to speak to an expert, but I doubt if one's eye changes its focal distance at all for objects over 100 feet away. Second, memories of this sort are very malleable when first formed. If you and your friend saw it together you likely discussed it immediately. That you both "remember" the same thing would not be evidence in such a case. And third, your friend may remember this differently. The only proper way to find out would be for a third party to interview both of you. You could not have contacted your friend ahead of time since every time that we remember something our mind edits the memory a bit for us. If you contacted him first you could unconsciously convince him to go along with your current memory.

When events are properly recorded and then independently analyzed they are almost always shown to be mundane events.

We were together, both of us saw 4 solid objects at the same time and have discussed this event together many times over the years and told what we saw to our close friends. Once you see large UFO's disappear in front of you, you do not forget it.
You were not there, you saw nothing so have no validity to say we saw nothing of value.

 

[Subduction Zone]

We were together, both of us saw 4 solid objects at the same time and have discussed this event together many times over the years and told what we saw to our close friends. Once you see large UFO's disappear in front of you, you do not forget it.
You were not there, you saw nothing so have no validity to say we saw nothing of value.

You are incorrect. I know how easily people can fool themselves. For example you cannot claim to have four independent memories since you have all affected each other's thoughts. The most likely answer is that you saw something that you did not understand and misinterpreted it. Have you thought about this rationally? It appears not. Were you in a place where others were likely to have seen the same event? If that is the case then why aren't there other reports of it? If you think that it really happened you should see if you can investigate it properly. That means if a supposed witness was found that you and your friends would be the last people that could interview such a person. Do you understand why you are disqualified as an interviewer?