Actually it's really hard to define exactly what he was, Because he actually didn't believe in a personal god. I think what he called god was nature, he meant god in a poetic sense. In the strictest definition he was an atheist, I think he preferred the label agnostic because it doesn't have the knee jerk reaction that atheist seems to have to most people.
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Albert Einstein on:
- Thread starter Luminous
- Start date
Actually it's really hard to define exactly what he was, Because he actually didn't believe in a personal god. I think what he called god was nature, he meant god in a poetic sense. In the strictest definition he was an atheist, I think he preferred the label agnostic because it doesn't have the knee jerk reaction that atheist seems to have to most people.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
Yeah, that's what pantheism IS.
I don't think that's clear at all.
The strictest definition is one who rejects God, belief, and I don't think that applies at all.
Sorry, but it's a pet peeve of mine when people try to pretend Einstein was an atheist. It strikes me as a thinly veiled appeal to authority.
Well, actually he didn't believe in a deity, I'm familiar with pantheism. All atheism is, is a disbelief in a god or gods. He preferred the label agnostic to atheist, because atheism to him was more of a strident opposition to theism. But actually agnosticism goes to what you know, and atheism goes to what you believe, so in the strictest sense he was an agnostic atheist. He did know if there was a god, but he also didn't believe there was a god. Einstein used "god" in a poetic sense all the time, like, "god doesn't play dice with the universe"
I agree, there isn't a clear answer, and only he would know best. But calling him a pantheist is also at best dishonest. I guess I call him an atheist with regard to most conventional gods. But honestly I really don't know exactly what he believed, we could make speculation with his writings, but at best it would be what each individual is interpreting from what he said.
Storm
ThrUU the Looking Glass
If you'll go back and reread my first post in this thread, I didn't call him a pantheist. I gave two conflicting quotes and said it was up in the air.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
yes, but you agree with what?
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
I agree with the above. Exactly what about my post was ambiguous?
There was nothing in the quote from albert that said the universe has meaning and purpose, so, that was a bit ambiguous.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
"God does not play dice with the universe." implies meaning and purpose. Not anthropomorphic, "I think I'll create some humans" kind of meaning and purpose, mind you. But meaning and purpose nonetheless. Saying that he believed in "Spinoza's God" also implied meaning and purpose, again, not of the anthropomorphic kind.
I don't actually believe that the universe is completely deterministic. There seems to be a balance of determinism and chance.
And yes, I am aware that you think that every time Einstein referred to "God" he was using it "poetically." That's your perrogative.
God doesn't play dice with the universe, means could the universe have begun in any other way.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
whatever, dude.
"God doesn't play dice with the universe" meant that Einstein thought that the rejection of Newtonian determinism was wrong.
It wasn't just about how the universe began. It's a philosophical view of how the universe operates.
Right, I guess the point here, is when he made that comment he wasn't referring to an actual deity. Dude.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
In your opinion.
He was talking about how the universe works. He said that God doesn't make the universe work the way that had been proposed.
You want to claim that it was just "poetic"? That's your prerogative.
ok, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Since neither of us are in a position to make a determination of what he exactly meant by that.