Advaita vs Dvaita who is right ?

[godrealized]

Wannabe Yogi... as long as we try to assimilate teachings of sacred scriptures literally... we never get anywhere! Having seen light of sun in all its glory... it is easy for me to distinguish it from light of candle or bulb! Having reached source of all wisdom in cosmos... the sacred contents of Bhagavad Gita, Bible, Koran and all other sacred scriptures are not beyond my reach!

I have never ever read Bhagavad Gita in my life yet, I can give 365 days not stop discourse on the absolute that is defined in Bhagavad Gita... any of the Upanishads... the sacred Bible or Koran! One glance at the writings of a person... I can judge the spiritual level of a person! The path of jnana yoga is difficult to travel... prime reason why people prefer following path of religion!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

I don't see this as teaching an eternal Hell. Some twist the meaning after the foreigners conquered India. It is a new belief in Hinduism.

Since I am posting about twisting. Just look at the muscle mass on Madhava

And compare it to picture of Sankara (a very small thin man )on my signature at the bottom of the page.

The reason Madhava was a buffed wrestler. God had to find a teacher with a lot of muscle to twist the Vedas into Dvaita. Adi Sankara did not need to be so strong to twist the Vedas in to Advaita it fits well.

Everyone Please dont get mad it's a joke.

 

[zenzero]

Friends,

Once again be it ADVAITA or DWAITA makes no differences for those on the PATH /WAY.
Finally the realization is the same.
What is important is are you on the PATH / WAY?
Discussions are fine but only if used in the right direction as it could easily spill over to strengthening our *EGO* by showing intellectual prowess on the subject which is like Boddhidharma telling the emperor [china] when asked what merit he gained by spending so much on charity like feeding monks & poor, opening monasteries, schools etc. etc. That nothing is gained unless the EGO is totally surrendered. [kindly understand that an egoless person will never make claims of having done this and that ].

So are we on the PATH / WAY?

Love & rgds

 

[godrealized]

zenzero... if the concept of Dvaita is flawed from beginning... how can one reach ultimate goal of life! If we desire going from New Delhi to Mumbai and we take a road that goes to Chandigarh... we shall never in our lifetime reach our goal! Treading the right path from beginning is essence of life!

On the path of spirituality... none is brighter than the other! One is a student of class one... another student of class three... next a student of class ninth and other a well groomed teacher! Does not mean that the teacher has the capability to criticize one for one is ignorant of the facts... nor a student of class nine criticize a student of class one for possessing lesser knowledge!

Every single human being is on a journey. Choosing the right path is the essence! The path to God Almighty is via Advaita Vedanta theory of Bhagavad Gita! It has been proved beyond doubt that Bhagavad Gita has withstood every single test of time... the prime reason why it has been considered number-one document even by Indian courts... people taking oath on it!

Lord Krishna... who gave the doctrine of Bhagavad Gita to mankind was an avatar of his era (God manifest in human form)! The entire doctrine of Bhagavad Gita is without a flaw! The path to Almighty is straight and clear. We only need to remove our ignorance step-by-step by indulging in jnana (wisdom) contained in Bhagavad Gita! We shall one day definitely reach end goal of life!

 

[Satsangi]

BTW.I dont know how Sri Madhavacharya's dvaita introduced eternal damnation(hell) into Hinduism .Do you think they have any basis from the Shruti?I abhor that concept actually...

I did not know that there is "eternal hell" per Madhavacharya. Yes, many sages have said that compared to God's abode, all other lokas (Swarga etc) are like Naraka (hell).

Regards,

 

[Metempsychosis]

Klostermaier's college text book A Survey of Hinduism I gave my copy to a friend so I can't give you an exact quote.

Klostermaier is one of the best western scholars. ( He even rejects the Aryan Invasion.) I tend to trust him. His text book is the most widely used college text book on Hinduism in America.

Madhvas are wrong in calling Jains as atheists .Jains believe in atma,paramatma,reincarnation..the atheists are the materialists who dont believe in any kind of afterlife.BTW.there is a community of Jains in the region in which Madhvacharya was born.But such a image of Madhvacharya is not known among Vaishnavas in India,IMHO.

Please visit the dvaita official website here.

Klostermaier has been criticized there.Use the cached version of the page from hereKlostermaier dvaita.Someone has "hijacked" the original website.

The webmaster(owner) of the dvaita website above,is active in other Hindu forums.She harshly criticizes advaita philosophy(If you read dvaita faq there).Her criticism of fellow Vaishnava Prabupada is amusing to me

In addition, Prabhupada's lack of understanding of even the most basic facts of science and astronomy is manifest, so much so that one wonders if he ever passed high school.

This is probably only point where the some advaitins may agree with those dvaitins.

This is not the Translation I use ( it's just to easy to cut and paste) but this is why some talk of eternal Hell.
I don't see this as teaching an eternal Hell. Some twist the meaning after the foreigners conquered India. It is a new belief in Hinduism.

Haha ..I remember the chapter 16 of BG.. .But I doubt the major Upanishads even talk about people suffering painfully in Hell.

Since I am posting about twisting. Just look at the muscle mass on Madhava

LOL....To bring the Upanishads into a completely dualist interpretation requires great talent..

I did not know that there is "eternal hell" per Madhavacharya. Yes, many sages have said that compared to God's abode, all other lokas (Swarga etc) are like Naraka (hell).

I dont think Madhva acharya has based his logic from Shruti text.Nowhere in the Shruti eternal damnation is mentioned.But madhva says a a third class of souls is eventually condemned to eternal hell or Andhatamas (Tamo-yogyas).I dont agree with him.

 

[zenzero]

Friend godrealised,

Missed again!
Forms are both seen and unseen.
Day and night, good / bad are dualities as distinct as can be.
Take a pendulum and from zero one travels on the positive side which you have done and say that you have realised God another person travels on the negative side and realises Satan. Both are right, in their own way.
Daku Ratnakar became Balmiki as for him the pendulum swung from the extreme negative towards the other direction which again was another extreme. [that is the nature of pendulum.]
It is only in the center when the pendulum is neither on any side is there complete balance and from this point both sides exists there is both a duality and an unity.

Love & rgds

 

[godrealized]

zenzero... the functioning of physical manifest world does not always hold well in spiritual system! For living the physical manifest life in a meaningful manner... we need balancing our life but in the spiritual world... we have to negate presence of karma in totality! Similar as one KG of gold sandwiched in hundred KG lump of gold ore cannot separate itself of its own... every soul atman also requires manifesting karma to purify itself!

Until 99 KG of impurities exist in soul atman... it shall not reach stage of liberation (termed Mukti in Hinduism)! There is no middle path in system of God! All is absolute, perfect... without a flaw! Duality does not exist in system of God! Duality is part of nature and unless we crossover Samsara (worldly life) forever... our soul atman would never liberate self from maze of worldly life!

Whatever I say... is my personal experience! To follow or not to follow is everyone's personal prerogative! The dictates of Bhagavad Gita are crystal clear! Without an iota of doubt... one can follow the teachings of Bhagavad Gita ceremoniously! At the end of spiritual path lay the abode of God... the kingdom of God (termed Baikuntha in Hinduism)!

 

[zenzero]

Friend godrealsed,

It is only a THOUGHT or the MIND which distinguishes between any two things and that is what Adwaita is all about.
If spiritual and material are two different things then it is surely Dwaita that one speaks off.

Love & rgds

 

[godrealized]

zenzero... the concept of Dvaita is different from Advaita for the reason that it does not except oneness of God Almighty. In Dvaita identity of soul atman is considered separate from Brahman... eternal God! The concept of Dvaita is not related to prakriti (insentient matter) that encompasses whole cosmos!

It is only when consciousness (our soul atman... the spirit within) manifests prakriti (insentient matter)... life is born in cosmic system! Of itself... like one KG gold sandwiched in hundred KG lump of gold ore cannot separate of its own... the cosmic consciousness... our soul atman the spirit within also manifests prakriti (nature) to germinate life!

 

[Wannabe Yogi]

zenzero... the concept of Dvaita is different from Advaita for the reason that it does not except oneness of God Almighty. In Dvaita identity of soul atman is considered separate from Brahman... eternal God! The concept of Dvaita is not related to prakriti (insentient matter) that encompasses whole cosmos!

Advaita and Dvaita are both conceptions of the mind. Both are just ideas about reality and not reality it self. Advaita Vedanta is just a Graph of reality that we place on the cosmos to make sense of it. I believe it to be the best of all Graphs, But still... it is just a conceptual frame work that our minds use to make sense of the universe we live in. It is not the Truth but distorts the Truth. Just like every other philosophical map that our minds can use.

The good thing about Advaita Vedanta is that it is a self destructive concept that in time it naturally blows it self up if we spend time contemplating it's nature. That is the genus of the path the Great Vedic rishis have given us.

Why should I judge the paths of others, if my path is also wrong. If someone wants to worship and follow the Lord Krishna. What a good example of love and fun. How many have died in this world because somebody believes that THEIR RELIGION IS WRONG. It is always I am right and you are wrong.

I am tired of Hari Krishnas telling me that I am a IMPERSONALIST and that is no better then an ATHEIST. Or Christian adults telling my son when he was 5, that he and his whole family will go to eternal hell fire, because we are Hindu's. If this is religion I spit on it.

The Hindu's of old could argue about religion and then sit down and eat lunch together and be the best of friends. That is what Hinduism has to offer the world. An open mind to the belief of others.

Not by hate is hate defeated;
Hate is quenched by love.
This is the eternal law.​

-Lord Buddha​

OM Tat Sat
-Jai Maa

 

[zenzero]

Friend godrealised,

the concept of Dvaita is different from Advaita for the reason that it does not except oneness of God Almighty. In Dvaita identity of soul atman is considered separate from Brahman... eternal God! The concept of Dvaita is not related to prakriti (insentient matter) that encompasses whole cosmos!

Kindly understand when the mind distinguishes between any two things be whatever *label* you use it is Dwaita and when the mind is still free from all discriminations, labels, thoughts only consciousness remains then neither is there any soul or god or .....There is no *OR*.
Consciousness simply *IS*.

Love & rgds

 

[zenzero]

Friend WY,

Well stated.
[frubal pending]

However, would avoid spitting on even An abstract matter like *religion* as that brings out the unconsciousness in us. Whatever we throw out, comes back to us even SPIT!
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just laugh it out. each his own karma besides life is nothing to be taken seriously but laugh at this whole maya play.
Love & rgds

 

[Chewbarker1054]

Did you know Madhava's followers beheaded 5000 Jains because they were Atheists. I do not need to study Madhava. I see him as a product of the Islamic conquest of Indian. Maybe there was a need of a simple world view in Hinduism to keep it alive. Who knows ?

I ignore Madhavacharya. There were many Great Bhakti saints who showed the devotional path to God who were basically dualists.So I don't need to study the works of that acharya

Wow I never knew that - I heard a tale that he advised a king to impale 500 Jains on stakes because they would not follow Vedanta teaching!

 

[Chewbarker1054]

I think there is much to learn from all schools of Vedanta and some of the defences and attacks on each others philiosophy help people in the different school think deeper about their faiths. I have just finshed the Advaita Siddhi of Madhusudana Sarasvati which answers some of the critisism of the Vashnava schools of advaita against Advaita - really intresting stuff but very deep!!!

 

[SageTree]

It seems to me that love it at the essence of everything. I may not understand God, but whatever reality is, I think that Love is at the core of it. I cannot help but seeing it behind every action and every aspect of life.

:flower:

 

[ratikala]

and wanabe yogi gave such a perfect quote ...

Not by hate is hate defeated;
Hate is quenched by love.
This is the eternal law.​

-Lord Buddha​

and I hope your son was not hurt by such thoughtless a comment , seems to me you are both very fortunate souls


this was a very interesting post , I'm glad it got re opened and may we all take heed and reflect upon zenzero's words

However, would avoid spitting on even An abstract matter like *religion* as that brings out the unconsciousness in us. Whatever we throw out, comes back to us even SPIT!
Hahahahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Just laugh it out. each his own karma besides life is nothing to be taken seriously but laugh at this whole maya play.
Love & rgds

yes exactly frubals pending allround , after all wanabe only said if this is ....

because we know it is not ,

best wishes
and I bow to all gentle souls of faith :bow:

 

[bhootarajaru]

The path of Advaita propagated by Adi Shankaracharya is without a flaw!

It is full of flaw's . Advaita is itself a great flaw when studied properly.

 

[StarryNightshade]

I personally believe in Non-Dualism (advaita), but I don't feel either advaita or dvaita has a monopoly on truth.

So which it correct? The one which the individual believes to be true.

 

[bhootarajaru]

zenzero... the concept of Dvaita is different from Advaita for the reason that it does not except oneness of God Almighty. In Dvaita identity of soul atman is considered separate from Brahman... eternal God! The concept of Dvaita is not related to prakriti (insentient matter) that encompasses whole cosmos!

It is only when consciousness (our soul atman... the spirit within) manifests prakriti (insentient matter)... life is born in cosmic system! Of itself... like one KG gold sandwiched in hundred KG lump of gold ore cannot separate of its own... the cosmic consciousness... our soul atman the spirit within also manifests prakriti (nature) to germinate life!

Yes , but soul's are eternally different from god. He is the ultimate . What if the soul manifest's prakriti , the very thing "manifesting " require's many soul's so its duelism. How can you term every one as one and the same..................