Adam and Eve

[Spirit of Light]

Tasawwuf (Sufism) and Quantum Physics – History of Islam

An exact science is expressed in the highly sophisticated language of mathematics, whereas Sufism is based on meditation and insists that the Sufis insight cannot be verbalized. Reality, as experienced by Sufis, is completely indeterminate and undifferentiated. They do not see the intellect as their source of knowledge, but merely use it to analyze and interpret their personal experience.

The parallel between scientific experiments and Sufi experiences may seem surprising due to the very different nature of observation. Physicists perform experiments involving elaborate teamwork and highly sophisticated technology; Sufis obtain their knowledge purely through introspection, without machinery, and in the privacy of dhikr (meditation). Repeating an experiment in elementary particle physics requires many years of training; deep Sufi experience generally requires many years of training under an experienced master. The complexity and efficiency of the physicists technical apparatus is matched, if not surpassed, by the Sufi’s consciousness, both physical and spiritual, while in deep dhikr. Thus scientists and Sufis have developed highly sophisticated methods of observing nature that are inaccessible to the layperson.

 

[idea]

Personally i have not much interest in digging out old bones, but i seen dinosaur bones before yes.

A prophet may do wrong when learning the message from Allah, i see a prophet as a spiritual teacher . A prophet will do less and less wrong. I have not met a prophet in real life so i can not say if they are perfect or not. But as you say Allah is the perfect being.

Knowing all humans, even prophets, are imperfect and occationally make mistakes is an invitation for personal testimony, individual freedom to disagree with some human teachings, and create a personal relashionship with God. I think God allows all the different religious groups and leaders to exist, all the imperfect people to try and lead, to support only part of our spiritual journeys. By the end it is an individual personal faith.

misplaced faith - ignoring evidence that a human spiritual leader may have made mistake in their interpretation of things.

honest humble faith - admit when wrong, learn from all sources, see God's love in all people.

 

[Valjean]

Practicing a religion is a path to better psycological stability yes, but i say it works for me, i do not claim it work for or have to be seen as truth of others (I only speak for how i do things) I do not speak for any other human than my self.

How clear do i have to make it that what i speak of is my own personal experience from being a religious practicing person that, what i practice is a personal journey from within. i say again so anyone can understand.

I do not speak for anyone else. If others have different opinion, experience or views, that is 100% ok to me because that is their free right to do. I can not claim anything for others. I do not claim anything is mine, All i do is speak about what i experience through the practice.

Thanks for the reply, CT, I'm beginning to see where the misunderstandings are between us: utilitarianism vs ontology.
I have no problem with psychotherapy -- Freudian, Jungian, primal scream, or religious -- as long as it's presented as a technique; a modality -- a tool.
But when it's asserted to be grounded in some cosmological truth, a burden of proof is assumed.

You say: "seen as truth." That's a problem.
"Seen as effective" or "seen as useful" I have no problem with, but "seen as true" -- that assumes a burden of proof. That's an ontological assertion.

I respect the fact that you speak only for yourself, but when you make a truth claim you are no longer speaking for yourself,

 

[Valjean]

check your avatar

and your mirror

hehehehe

You haven't answered my question. How is a raccoon "lesser?"
You're being hierarchical. On what are you basing your assessment of status or worth?
Each organism has its strengths and weaknesses, each is better than us at something.
Judging worthiness or status based on those things humans excel at is hubris, at best.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

...... It is science and not something to be believed like a religion. The evidence supports that conclusion on human evolutionary ancestry. And I say this a Christian.

When your post disagrees with Scripture, so I wonder how could one be Christian and Not believe Scripture_____
We don't know about before the formation of Adam, but that Adam was formed a little more than 6,000 years ago.

 

[rational experiences]

What you post disagrees with Scripture, so I wonder how could one be Christian and Not believe Scripture_____
We don't know about before the formation of Adam, but that Adam was formed a little more than 6,000 years ago.

If I studied why human image and voice was atmospheric encoded with in. Carbon state. Machine conditions.... what time being numbers as an equation would you in science identify that condition as?

Recording moment in a gas mass?

Years are only human experienced as one cycle. So the next year is not yet lived to be a human who counts in bio existence counting.

2021 is not year 6000.

For science claiming I want Adam myself in new science by biblical themes.

Being why forums own multi questions in a science study of a bible thesis not even the bible.

Nuclear fuel consumption not the old science is first science today.

Machine conditions the sciences in human life.

As a human wrote the adam.story living as a human you were never writing about any past.

Living human was always just present.

If you say Adam wrote his story then a living man was writing the story.

Yet you don't.

You pretend some entity told you as a human.

Counting as a back term is just a number. It is not rationally time.

Time is forward movement.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

............2021 is not year 6000..................

Right, I never posted 2021 was 6,000 years from Adam, but said '6,000 plus years' from Adam.
More like 6,000 plus years since the middle 1970's.
What is missing is: how many years before Eve was formed and how long before Eve sinned.

 

[Subduction Zone]

When your post disagrees with Scripture, so I wonder how could one be Christian and Not believe Scripture_____
We don't know about before the formation of Adam, but that Adam was formed a little more than 6,000 years ago.

Some parts of the Bible are not meant to be read literally if there is a God.

Tell me, does your version of God lie?

 

[F1fan]

Tasawwuf (Sufism) and Quantum Physics – History of Islam

An exact science is expressed in the highly sophisticated language of mathematics, whereas Sufism is based on meditation and insists that the Sufis insight cannot be verbalized. Reality, as experienced by Sufis, is completely indeterminate and undifferentiated. They do not see the intellect as their source of knowledge, but merely use it to analyze and interpret their personal experience.

The parallel between scientific experiments and Sufi experiences may seem surprising due to the very different nature of observation. Physicists perform experiments involving elaborate teamwork and highly sophisticated technology; Sufis obtain their knowledge purely through introspection, without machinery, and in the privacy of dhikr (meditation). Repeating an experiment in elementary particle physics requires many years of training; deep Sufi experience generally requires many years of training under an experienced master. The complexity and efficiency of the physicists technical apparatus is matched, if not surpassed, by the Sufi’s consciousness, both physical and spiritual, while in deep dhikr. Thus scientists and Sufis have developed highly sophisticated methods of observing nature that are inaccessible to the layperson.

You said you had no interest in science. So you've changed your mind, and you now accept evolution?

 

[F1fan]

Right, I never posted 2021 was 6,000 years from Adam, but said '6,000 plus years' from Adam.
More like 6,000 plus years since the middle 1970's.
What is missing is: how many years before Eve was formed and how long before Eve sinned.

So you're reading it as an allegory and not history?

 

[rational experiences]

Right, I never posted 2021 was 6,000 years from Adam, but said '6,000 plus years' from Adam.
More like 6,000 plus years since the middle 1970's.
What is missing is: how many years before Eve was formed and how long before Eve sinned.

Eve never existed.

A teaching.

Advice.

Living man conscious counts each day as he lives.

Said even balanced sky.

Which owned all conditions.

Clear gases coldest.
Burnt cold gas as a gas is cold.
Radiation effect in gas burning.

Conditions first law created.

The argument first law saw scientists human lie.

First law is created. What exists.

So eve never existed.

Even balanced changed increased sin. Owned naturally by mother of God womb space.

Radiation fallout. What science did man when he burnt natural gas cold making a new space form.

Hot space not immaculate clear space.

When science looks at a UFO the condition seen advises cold alight gases burnt out. As you cannot see clear gases burning as then it is light.

Science told science that science was a liar actually.

 

[Thief]

You're being hierarchical. On what are you basing your assessment of status or worth?
Each organism has its strengths and weaknesses, each is better than us at something.
Judging worthiness or status based on those things humans excel at is hubris, at best.

we have hierarchy
I like it cause I am on top of that
(here in this life)

and we bridle horses and break them
that they take us wherever we want to go

dogs hunt packs at will
but we take the animal and collar it.....chain it
take it's freedom
forbid that it bites the and that feeds him
and we expect loyalty

we cage birds for their love songs
but that creature will never find the mate he sings for
there will be no nest ....no eggs....no offspring
and he will die in confined solitude

we kill bugs
just cause we don't like them

we do unto lesser things.....at will

and we do unto others......likewise

wait til you meet the Hierarchy of heaven

or hell

 

[Spirit of Light]

Thanks for the reply, CT, I'm beginning to see where the misunderstandings are between us: utilitarianism vs ontology.
I have no problem with psychotherapy -- Freudian, Jungian, primal scream, or religious -- as long as it's presented as a technique; a modality -- a tool.
But when it's asserted to be grounded in some cosmological truth, a burden of proof is assumed.

You say: "seen as truth." That's a problem.
"Seen as effective" or "seen as useful" I have no problem with, but "seen as true" -- that assumes a burden of proof. That's an ontological assertion.

I respect the fact that you speak only for yourself, but when you make a truth claim you are no longer speaking for yourself,

The ting is even i say see as truth or understanding it as truth, that means at this moment in time this is what i understand truth to be, later on this truth may change when i gain deeper wisdom about the subject, I can honestly say i do not hold the deepest understanding of what any religion call truth.

 

[Spirit of Light]

You said you had no interest in science. So you've changed your mind, and you now accept evolution?

No i have not change my mind, if you see closly the text is not written by me, i provided a link to where it was found, but the text represent what sufism do speak about. That does not mean i blindly follow every tiny explenation.
I am not seeing personally any reason why i should believe in science that can not lead me to Allah. The only thing i am interested in, in this life is to come closer to Allah, and that science can not help me with.

If others want to believe or use science as a tool for them self, go ahead.

 

[F1fan]

No i have not change my mind, if you see closly the text is not written by me, i provided a link to where it was found, but the text represent what sufism do speak about. That does not mean i blindly follow every tiny explenation.
I am not seeing personally any reason why i should believe in science that can not lead me to Allah. The only thing i am interested in, in this life is to come closer to Allah, and that science can not help me with.

If others want to believe or use science as a tool for them self, go ahead.

Science isn't about ideology. It isn't something to exploit by theism. It's an explanation of what we observe. If you're strongly not interested in science, then make sure you don't bring it up. I say this since you're opposed to valid conclusions in science and you have contempt for these results. You either respect science, or you don't.

 

[Spirit of Light]

Science isn't about ideology. It isn't something to exploit by theism. It's an explanation of what we observe. If you're strongly not interested in science, then make sure you don't bring it up. I say this since you're opposed to valid conclusions in science and you have contempt for these results. You either respect science, or you don't.

I respect science as a field for human beings, I am just not interested in it my self.

I see the house or car, I am just not interested in how they build it, or made the car.
I see the nature, and ask Allah, How did you make that so beautiful.

I see the computer i using to write this on, I have no interest in knowing how they made it.
I see the scripture and wonder how Allah have made it possible for me to gain wisdom from it.

 

[F1fan]

I respect science as a field for human beings, I am just not interested in it my self.

'Are you not human?

I see the house or car, I am just not interested in how they build it, or made the car.
I see the nature, and ask Allah, How did you make that so beautiful.

But when a builder or engineer explains how they are built you don't reject their expertise like you do biology.

I see the computer i using to write this on, I have no interest in knowing how they made it.

If a programmer explains how it works will you reject their expertise like you do biologists?

I see the scripture and wonder how Allah have made it possible for me to gain wisdom from it.

Yet you reject the expertise of biologists, so the question is why you're not wise enough to understand your bias. How has Allah failed you?

 

[Spirit of Light]

'Are you not human?


But when a builder or engineer explains how they are built you don't reject their expertise like you do biology.


If a programmer explains how it works will you reject their expertise like you do biologists?

Yet you reject the expertise of biologists, so the question is why you're not wise enough to understand your bias. How has Allah failed you?

I am in human form now because i was born in to human body yes. But on a deeper level i believe we all are spirits trapped in human body.

I do not reject it is a field of human knowledge, i just have zero interest in how to build things or how a thing works as long it does not have to do with the awakening of wisdom from within (spiritual practice)

It is you who call what i believe in to be bias, that is your choice.

 

[F1fan]

I am in human form now because i was born in to human body yes. But on a deeper level i believe we all are spirits trapped in human body.

And why is that useful to believe?

I do not reject it is a field of human knowledge, i just have zero interest in how to build things or how a thing works as long it does not have to do with the awakening of wisdom from within (spiritual practice)

So since you have no interest in science don't you think it wise to defer to what experts in biology concluded where it comes to evolution? You accept the computer science, and engineering, and experts in building, yes? What is your bias against biologists?

It is you who call what i believe in to be bias, that is your choice.

Sorry but I never forced you to post your rejection of evolution. That was your choice to admit. And given you';re no expert in biology from your own admission of indifference to science, you have no valid reason to reject evolution except bias against it.

 

[Spirit of Light]

And why is that useful to believe?


So since you have no interest in science don't you think it wise to defer to what experts in biology concluded where it comes to evolution? You accept the computer science, and engineering, and experts in building, yes? What is your bias against biologists?

Sorry but I never forced you to post your rejection of evolution. That was your choice to admit. And given you';re no expert in biology from your own admission of indifference to science, you have no valid reason to reject evolution except bias against it.

I do not ask you or others to believe what i believe, you are free to make up your own mind, What i belive is useful to me.

I believe in creation, not evolution by chance.
I do not single out biologists, that was you who did. , But as i said, I believe Allah created the nature. Human beings make cars. houses, and so on.

Just because you call it bias, does not mean it is bias to me.