1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Absolute Rights

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Koldo, Sep 25, 2021.

  1. Koldo

    Koldo Incredible Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2011
    Messages:
    11,626
    Ratings:
    +1,864
    What rights, if any, do you consider to be absolute? If so, why?

    Absolute rights are those that can not, or should not, be limited under any circumstance.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    10,402
    Ratings:
    +8,716
    Religion:
    Secular Zen
    Should not...under any circumstance...
    Right to life.
     
  3. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,923
    Ratings:
    +1,847
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox
    You are saying you are against abortion?
     
  4. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    10,402
    Ratings:
    +8,716
    Religion:
    Secular Zen
    I knew I shouldn't have posted!
    I am not against abortion.
     
    • Funny Funny x 3
  5. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2020
    Messages:
    3,538
    Ratings:
    +1,976
    Are you saying you are also against the right to self defence, police engaging in lethal force against criminals, and military forces engaging in combat, or do you believe killing people is okay in some circumstances?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,923
    Ratings:
    +1,847
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox
    I was just curious; in the US 'right to life' would usually be taken to mean 'pro-life', that is against abortion.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  7. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,923
    Ratings:
    +1,847
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox
    Huh?
     
  8. Secret Chief

    Secret Chief Meghalayan Ape

    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2011
    Messages:
    10,402
    Ratings:
    +8,716
    Religion:
    Secular Zen
    Fortunately :) I am not an American. I consider abortion to be a whole different topic. I meant life for individuals. Abortion involves (obviously) issues such as the circumstances of the pregnancy (eg rape), how many weeks pregnant, the woman's freedom of choice and rights over her own body etc. I'm also in favour of contraception in case anyone was thinking of asking me that one! (especially for Boris Johnson's mother)
     
    #8 Secret Chief, Sep 25, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2021
    • Winner Winner x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2020
    Messages:
    3,538
    Ratings:
    +1,976
    I am assuming you are "pro life", are you not? Or is that not an absolute position you would take?

    If I misread your argument here, then I apologize.
     
  10. Stevicus

    Stevicus Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2011
    Messages:
    22,844
    Ratings:
    +14,647
    Religion:
    Agnostic
    It's a good question. I suppose it would depend on whether one views a right as a claim of being "God-given," or more of a promise or guarantee offered by governments in an attempt to maximize utility and human happiness.

    Perhaps a right to a fair trial would be an example of an absolute right which every accused person should get. If a person is accused, they have a right to a trial and to be treated fairly. Also, being spared any cruel or unusual punishment might also be considered absolute. No civilized society should engage in such things.

    The Third Amendment doesn't get much attention anymore, but that should also be considered an absolute right.

    And of course, the Thirteenth Amendment - no one should ever be a slave, and no civilized society should ever condone it. That's an absolute right, in my view.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. Kooky

    Kooky Freedom from Sanity

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2020
    Messages:
    3,538
    Ratings:
    +1,976
    I propose that Rights cannot be absolute because their reality is contingent on the social circumstances that allow them to be seized and made real.
     
  12. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,923
    Ratings:
    +1,847
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox
    Yes, you were correct. And I do consider myself a pacifist.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,725
    Ratings:
    +7,322
    Religion:
    deist
    Do you believe in police shooting non violent criminals, or criminals running away!
     
  14. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,725
    Ratings:
    +7,322
    Religion:
    deist
    But they execute folks there. And shoot unarmed folks, or so we hear.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Regiomontanus

    Regiomontanus retired astronomer

    Joined:
    May 24, 2017
    Messages:
    1,923
    Ratings:
    +1,847
    Religion:
    Eastern Orthodox
    Yes :(
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    36,891
    Ratings:
    +12,991
    Religion:
    Animist
    I knew it was coming when I first read it
     
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Shrugs. I tried.

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2014
    Messages:
    36,891
    Ratings:
    +12,991
    Religion:
    Animist
    A right to be born, a right to live, and a right to die. The Last Meal - Crime Museum

    I'm against abortion and death penalty. I'm not against freedom to chose and suffering humane consequences of ones actions.
     
  18. Heyo

    Heyo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 1, 2019
    Messages:
    8,187
    Ratings:
    +7,241
    Religion:
    none
    There are no absolute rights. All rights are human constructs and as such not real. We, as a society, grant them.
    Having said that, there are rights, I think, we should grant without loopholes or exceptions. The right to life (for a person) should be high on that list.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  19. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    18,898
    Ratings:
    +9,193
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    All rights come with responsibilities, so there really in no such thing as an 'absolute' right. Even the most fundamental right; the right to exist, comes with the obligation to respect that right in others. And to refuse to do that, would then negate that right to oneself.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  20. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2021
    Messages:
    2,144
    Ratings:
    +1,857
    Religion:
    Agnostic Lapsed Catholic
    “We hold these truths to be self evident” - a bold statement in itself, whatever follows.

    Americans will presumably know what does follow; “that all men are created equal, and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”

    I am not a US citizen, nor do I have any aspirations ever to be one. But as a statement of principle on which to base a system of government, it’s hard to a imagine a more noble sentiment. Clearly, history tells us that human beings are far better at expressing noble sentiments than they are at living up to them. But the difficulty of living up to them, is no reason not to aspire to the very highest standards.

    Any opinions I may or may not have on the subject of abortion, I intend to keep entirely to myself.
     
Loading...