Abrahamic Faiths Only: True Abrahamic Religion

[Mr Cheese]

Handbags at 10 paces???

Handbags at ten paces

 

[NoahideHiker]

Isaiah 2 says:

Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the LORD’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And all nations shall flow to it.
3 Many people shall come and say,

“ Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,
To the house of the God of Jacob;
He will teach us His ways,
And we shall walk in His paths.”
For out of Zion shall go forth the law,
And the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 He shall judge between the nations,
And rebuke many people;
They shall beat their swords into plowshares,
And their spears into pruning hooks;
Nation shall not lift up sword against nation,
Neither shall they learn war anymore.


This is one of the many that speak of the Messiah; sounds like all nations shall go to the Lord, this Messiah, and go by His ways. That is the one correct religion. For Jews saught signs, but in that they erred and fell from the grace of God. Other nations saught wisdom, but they erred for they despised the wisdom and the power of God, which is this Messiah.

In Daniel, in the vision, "One that is like the Son of Man, is brought before the Ancient of Days, and to Him all dominions and kingdoms are given." Is that not the Messiah to whom all things are given?

It's also written in Micah 4. Infact, all prophets spoke of this Messiah.

Isaiah also wrote in Chapter 11,
" And in that day there shall be a Root of Jesse,
Who shall stand as a banner to the people;
For the Gentiles shall seek Him,
And His resting place shall be glorious. "

It says that all the nations of the world, will seek Him.

What did David mean when he said:
"The LORD has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.”

That this Messiah, would be He through whom the people will appeal to God for mercy. That He stands between God and the people. That no one gets to God except through Him who is the Lamb and a Priest of God.

You know what the problem is with Judaism? Not the Torah, but their unbelief! For Christ is the fullfillment of the Torah. They read the right Books, but a veil has been placed on their heads that they should not understand. For when they thought themselves to be the doers of the Law they did not have faith.

Now this Messiah, is the same Messiah Moses wrote of in Deutoronomy 18 saying,

15 “The LORD your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear,..."

and then God said,

19 And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him."


This is the same that David wrote of in Psalm 2 saying:

10 Now therefore, be wise, O kings;
Be instructed, you judges of the earth.
11 Serve the LORD with fear,
And rejoice with trembling.
12 Kiss the Son, lest He be angry,
And you perish in the way,
When His wrath is kindled but a little.
Blessed are all those who put their trust in Him.

Again, nowhere has any of this said that salvation is dependent upon worshiping or believing in the Moshiach. If it were that narrow and clear cut it would be splattered from one end of the Jewish text to the other. So what IS pointed out time and again in the Jewish scriptures? The Torah and the law. Learn it. Follow it. Keep it.

 

[NoahideHiker]

Wow. And you call me self righteous.

To quote your jesus...

"Judge not lest ye be judged.

Don't expect more of a response from me. This post from you tells me that continued discussion with you will be unpleasant.

The absolute shear audacity of some people to think that they know the religion that was written ABOUT Jews, BY Jews, and FOR Jews better than you, a Jew...and the rotten cherry on top is the "stiff necked Jew" card.

Unbelieveable. I'm out...:run:

 

[phuti]

The absolute shear audacity of some people to think that they know the religion that was written ABOUT Jews, BY Jews, and FOR Jews better than you, a Jew...and the rotten cherry on top is the "stiff necked Jew" card.

Unbelieveable. I'm out...:run:

Well, is this not what we learn of you in your own writtings? Did you not kill your own prophets? One said, "it is the cycle", but in fact it is the nature of mankind. You, who were not a people at all, whom God Himself made a people for His own glory, and made you like the sand of the sea in multitude, have become like us gentiles who knew not God, you went after our gods forsaking the goodness of the Most High God who took you out of Egypt and did wonders before your own eyes, and subdued mighty kings before you, but yet you dispised His laws.

All I'm saying is, that if you think that the Lord God of Israel is your God, also consider that He is the God of Noah, who is the father of us all, therefore He is also our God. Why should we be subject to your laws which you yourselves have many times failed to keep? You yourselves are a witness against your own selves that although the Law of God is perfect and good, you cannot keep it, for you are like us, carnal in mind, thinking customs justify man. Well, it is faith that justifies man.

And as faith is hope of things that cannot be seen, we are justified in God in that we have a hope that, as the Lord Jesus died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we shall also rise one day and be given life from Him who is the author of life in the day of resurrection. That we will, one day, be freed from this evil world when it perishes with all who love it, and that we will also be saved from that wrath that is to come. And that is the hope we live by. That is the hope that guides our actions, our love for one another, and our perception of the world.

Is it not written that "The just shall live by faith"? Because you are a Jew, and you follow the Torah, which is a perfect Law of God, you do well unto God, but judge me not that I'm weak and unable to adhere to what your Law teaches, for God has received me through Christ, my salvation and hope for the wonderfull things to come.

 

[NoahideHiker]

Well, is this not what we learn of you in your own writtings? Did you not kill your own prophets? One said, "it is the cycle", but in fact it is the nature of mankind. You, who were not a people at all, whom God Himself made a people for His own glory, and made you like the sand of the sea in multitude, have become like us gentiles who knew not God, you went after our gods forsaking the goodness of the Most High God who took you out of Egypt and did wonders before your own eyes, and subdued mighty kings before you, but yet you dispised His laws.

All I'm saying is, that if you think that the Lord God of Israel is your God, also consider that He is the God of Noah, who is the father of us all, therefore He is also our God. Why should we be subject to your laws which you yourselves have many times failed to keep? You yourselves are a witness against your own selves that although the Law of God is perfect and good, you cannot keep it, for you are like us, carnal in mind, thinking customs justify man. Well, it is faith that justifies man.

And as faith is hope of things that cannot be seen, we are justified in God in that we have a hope that, as the Lord Jesus died, and rose again, and ascended to heaven, we shall also rise one day and be given life from Him who is the author of life in the day of resurrection. That we will, one day, be freed from this evil world when it perishes with all who love it, and that we will also be saved from that wrath that is to come. And that is the hope we live by. That is the hope that guides our actions, our love for one another, and our perception of the world.

Is it not written that "The just shall live by faith"? Because you are a Jew, and you follow the Torah, which is a perfect Law of God, you do well unto God, but judge me not that I'm weak and unable to adhere to what your Law teaches, for God has received me through Christ, my salvation and hope for the wonderfull things to come.

Point 1) I am not a Jew and I am not Jewish. I am a Torah observant Gentile. I was a born again, washed in da blood, bible thumping christian for over seven years and I have studied many religions. So the christian rhetoric goes no where with me.

Point 2) Scripture hunt part deux: Please tell me where in the Jewish scriptures it states that the law must be kept perfectly in order to gain salvation. Hint: it ain't there.

Why is it that non-Jews always wanna hammer on the myth that the law is too hard to follow and keep? If you took the law books from your town and put them all on a shelf those laws would stretch a dozen feet. How many thousands of laws does your city have on the books? Do you not keep all those thousands of laws every day? I do it without even thinking about it. So if we figure from the 613 Mitzvah we can scratch off all the temple related laws (for now *wink*), then the guys can scratch off the laws meant just for the ladies...wow, you're probably down to nearly half. Very doable.

So what does the Torah say a person should do if they transgress the law? According to christians they are simply damned without jesus to connect them to Hashem. The Torah, however, tells us we are to return to G-d and repent of our sin.

You are practicing a religion that took some of the most beautiful universal truths and mixed them with some pagan traditions and then tried to sell it back to the Jews (sometimes at sword point). Then when they are buying the lie they are called blind and stiff necked and damned.

 

[phuti]

Point 1) I am not a Jew and I am not Jewish. I am a Torah observant Gentile. I was a born again, washed in da blood, bible thumping christian for over seven years and I have studied many religions. So the christian rhetoric goes no where with me.

Well in that case, suit yourself Mr. "I know it all". For a "christian", you sure have skipped a lot of verses while doing you "bible thumping". You certainly missed the one that says, "Let no one perceive himself to be wise in his own opinion." You contradict yourself, because how can you say you are Christian, and yet not believe that it is through the Messiah that we receive salvation especially as a gentile? You must also remember, for it seems that for the seven years that you have been studying the bible you skipped the part, that the salvation of God is not only to the wise and educated like you, but even to the poorest of the poor, educated or uneducated.

You are practicing a religion that took some of the most beautiful universal truths and mixed them with some pagan traditions and then tried to sell it back to the Jews (sometimes at sword point). Then when they are buying the lie they are called blind and stiff necked and damned.

I don't practice religion as you say I do; I live my life free of customs, whichever day seemeth to be holy to me, I esteem holy to my God. I live in the hope to see my Lord when he returns. I can understand why you sound so sour, for you said, "I know!";

Have you not read,

"Do not be too wise, why should you destroy yourself. Neither be too wicked, why should you die before your time?"

or

He who increaseth wisdom increaseth sorrow, and he who increaseth knowlege increaseth grief

So which are you? Christian or Jew? For you speak of the Torah, which I assumed you excluded the New Testament, but it is written in the New Testament that salvation is through the Messiah. The way I see it, if you say you are Christian, then you either misunderstood how I mean that salvation is through the Messiah, or you dont believe in the Messiah.

So what does the Torah say a person should do if they transgress the law? According to christians they are simply damned without jesus to connect them to Hashem. The Torah, however, tells us we are to return to G-d and repent of our sin.

If you transgress, you obviously repent, and I thought that should be a given for someone who seemed to have the understanding. God cannot be mocked, if I should say, "let me transgress but I will be saved through the Messiah", am I not mocking God? Will God not judge both the wicked and righteous, wise and fools, believers and unbelievers?

 

[NoahideHiker]

Well in that case, suit yourself Mr. "I know it all". For a "christian", you sure have skipped a lot of verses while doing you "bible thumping". You certainly missed the one that says, "Let no one perceive himself to be wise in his own opinion." You contradict yourself, because how can you say you are Christian, and yet not believe that it is through the Messiah that we receive salvation especially as a gentile? You must also remember, for it seems that for the seven years that you have been studying the bible you skipped the part, that the salvation of God is not only to the wise and educated like you, but even to the poorest of the poor, educated or uneducated.

You misread my post. I said I was a christian. I was taught all about christianity as well as what christianity had to say about Judaism. Then I studied Judaism for myself from those who actually live and practice it. I have since left christianity and repented. And I never claimed to know it all. It is my ability to humble myself and admit I know nothing that has lead me to a much richer and fuller understanding of my G-d.

I don't practice religion as you say I do; I live my life free of customs, whichever day seemeth to be holy to me, I esteem holy to my God. I live in the hope to see my Lord when he returns. I can understand why you sound so sour, for you said, "I know!";

So you live according to your own perception of G-d, Torah and the Law? This brings clarity to the discussion.

So which are you? Christian or Jew? For you speak of the Torah, which I assumed you excluded the New Testament, but it is written in the New Testament that salvation is through the Messiah. The way I see it, if you say you are Christian, then you either misunderstood how I mean that salvation is through the Messiah, or you dont believe in the Messiah.

As I stated I was a christian and of course the NT is not included in the Torah. Why would I include writings from another religion into my own? I am neither Jew nor christian. I follow the seven universal laws of Noach which is older than Judaism itself.

If you transgress, you obviously repent, and I thought that should be a given for someone who seemed to have the understanding. God cannot be mocked, if I should say, "let me transgress but I will be saved through the Messiah", am I not mocking God? Will God not judge both the wicked and righteous, wise and fools, believers and unbelievers?

But according to christianity there is no forgiveness without jesus. The Jewish Tanach says nothing about forgiveness through another man other than it can't be done.

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

There is but one God, the Creator of the universe; and as to other gods/religions, if they contributed anything to the happiness of mankind, each and everyone of them afforded it only according to His appointment, and not by their own power.

In fact, the Baha'i Faith, which is eminently Abrahamic, asserts right in its scriptures not only that there is one God ("Abrahamic" is one of His many titles) but that ALL the great religions are legitimate and of God!

So, yes, it's all by the Power of God, and in fact all these religions worship this same One God by whatever name in the various languages and cultures.

Piece of cake!

Best,

Bruce

 

[Mr Cheese]

this thread was doomed from the outset...

fighting was all it was ever going to produce

 

[Dunemeister]

In Judaism, the level of observance of Torah may have changed throughout the years... but scripture itself has not. Though we do what we can to maintain more of an original perception of scripture by appealing to the wisdom of the sages, who surely knew more about scripture in its original language than people today could hope to learn through concordances and such.

Well, all hands agree that the scripture hasn't changed. But to be fair to Christianity, the Judaism of the first century was a blooming, buzzing confusion held together very loosely by adherence to central symbols, primarily temple, land, "works of the law" such as circumcision, Sabbaths/festivals, and kosher laws (to clearly demarcate Jew from Gentile). The story uniting them had something to do with creation, fall, covenant, and consummation. The latter bit is where there was most variation. What was to be the fate of the Gentiles? What role (if any) would a "messianic" figure have in that consummation? Who would be included and on what grounds? Was it to be inaugurated by direct action by (some of) God's people, or should it simply be waited for? Answers to questions like these gave rise to different groups (Essenes -- and subgroups of these, Pharisees -- and their umpteen subgroups, Zealots, Christians -- and umpteen other messianic movements that we have heard of, many more we haven't, Saduccees, and perhaps dozens more groups we haven't even heard of). Safe to say that what might now be considered a closed possibility was very much open in the first century. We cannot take the current hard line among orthodox Jewish scholars to be the basis upon which we judge the appropriacy of Christianity as an answer to the Jewish conundrum in the first century.

 

[Breathe]

-- MOD ADVISORY --

Okay, please try and keep debating civil, and avoid fighting. We staff don't want to see any more attacks, direct or indirect.

Now play nice you guys! Or you'll all go in the corner!

-- END OF MOD ADVISORY --
​

 

[Poisonshady313]

What was to be the fate of the Gentiles?

As long as they were good people, adhering to the 7 laws of Noah, they'd be blessed... and when the Messiah comes, all people will recognize and worship God.

What role (if any) would a "messianic" figure have in that consummation?

Among other things, the Messiah is called a "judge of the nations". He'll settle disputes between them. They would look up to him and learn from him.

Who would be included and on what grounds?

All people. Open up your bible and read the section with all the Prophets.

Was it to be inaugurated by direct action by (some of) God's people, or should it simply be waited for?

Either way, the solution was for Jews to improve Torah observance, not abandon it.

We cannot take the current hard line among orthodox Jewish scholars to be the basis upon which we judge the appropriacy of Christianity as an answer to the Jewish conundrum in the first century.

The only conundrums facing the Jews was Roman rule and Jews becoming less Torah observant. Christianity was not a solution to either of those things.

I have a few different theories on the purpose of Christianity.

The one I've been entertaining recently is the idea that Christianity was created by the Flavian Caesars in an effort to pacify Jewish rebels who await a Messiah who will be a military man (like King David), and to fool Jews into worshiping Titus by setting them up to worship a symbolic figure of Titus, i.e. Jesus.

The idea would have been, according to this second theory, that ending the distinction between Jew and Gentile would take away the Jews strongly held beliefs, and therefore would quell rebellion.

Another theory is that if it was Jews who established Christianity, it was because they had thrown in the towel. They gave up. They knew the temple would be destroyed soon, and they couldn't stand the persecution that came with living under Roman rule... so they came up with golden calf of their own. And like the original golden calf incident, there were Jews who stayed strong and remained faithful to God.

The idea would have been, according to this second theory, that ending the distinction between Jew and Gentile would put an end to the persecution that Jews suffer as a result of refusing to assimilate.

A third theory... similar to the second, yet this one allows for the existence of a historical Jesus... Jesus was basically Jim Jones... David Koresh... Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda... Reverend Sun Myung Moon, etc.

He ran around telling people he was God, or the son of God, or the Messiah, or any combination of the above... taking advantage of people who didn't know any better and wanted it to be true because it sounded better than life under roman rule.

Another theory... similar to the first theory... is that it was created by rome to keep slaves content with their station in life... because Judaism taught that slaves could earn their freedom. Christianity basically told them don't bother trying to make anything of life, because belief in Jesus assures you a wonderful eternal afterlife... which was perfect for keeping slaves content to be slaves, knowing they'd be rewarded when it was over.


And I hope you'll forgive me for how severe this is going to sound... but when you say "Christianity as an answer to the Jewish conundrum in the first century." It almost sounds like "Final Solution to the Jewish Question".

 

[Zardoz]

Yup, spoken like a Jew. Proud in heart and self-righteous according to customs of man...

It's amazing that people let this kind of thing stand ...

phutui... welcome to my ignore list. :ignore:

 

[phuti]

As long as they were good people, adhering to the 7 laws of Noah, they'd be blessed... and when the Messiah comes, all people will recognize and worship God.


Among other things, the Messiah is called a "judge of the nations". He'll settle disputes between them. They would look up to him and learn from him.


All people. Open up your bible and read the section with all the Prophets.


Either way, the solution was for Jews to improve Torah observance, not abandon it.



The only conundrums facing the Jews was Roman rule and Jews becoming less Torah observant. Christianity was not a solution to either of those things.

I have a few different theories on the purpose of Christianity.

The one I've been entertaining recently is the idea that Christianity was created by the Flavian Caesars in an effort to pacify Jewish rebels who await a Messiah who will be a military man (like King David), and to fool Jews into worshiping Titus by setting them up to worship a symbolic figure of Titus, i.e. Jesus.

The idea would have been, according to this second theory, that ending the distinction between Jew and Gentile would take away the Jews strongly held beliefs, and therefore would quell rebellion.

Another theory is that if it was Jews who established Christianity, it was because they had thrown in the towel. They gave up. They knew the temple would be destroyed soon, and they couldn't stand the persecution that came with living under Roman rule... so they came up with golden calf of their own. And like the original golden calf incident, there were Jews who stayed strong and remained faithful to God.

The idea would have been, according to this second theory, that ending the distinction between Jew and Gentile would put an end to the persecution that Jews suffer as a result of refusing to assimilate.

A third theory... similar to the second, yet this one allows for the existence of a historical Jesus... Jesus was basically Jim Jones... David Koresh... Jose Luis de Jesus Miranda... Reverend Sun Myung Moon, etc.

He ran around telling people he was God, or the son of God, or the Messiah, or any combination of the above... taking advantage of people who didn't know any better and wanted it to be true because it sounded better than life under roman rule.

Another theory... similar to the first theory... is that it was created by rome to keep slaves content with their station in life... because Judaism taught that slaves could earn their freedom. Christianity basically told them don't bother trying to make anything of life, because belief in Jesus assures you a wonderful eternal afterlife... which was perfect for keeping slaves content to be slaves, knowing they'd be rewarded when it was over.


And I hope you'll forgive me for how severe this is going to sound... but when you say "Christianity as an answer to the Jewish conundrum in the first century." It almost sounds like "Final Solution to the Jewish Question".

So since you do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, what do you say about all the signs or the prophecies about Him in the Old Testament that we saw manifest in the New Testament? Here's a few off the top of my head:

1.) That He would be born of a virgin

Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son, and shall call His name Immanuel. - Isaiah 7:14

2.) That He would be born in Bethlehem

"But as for you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you One will go forth for Me to be ruler in Israel. His goings forth are from long ago, from the days of eternity." (Micah 5:2)

3.) That John, who even the Jews believed was a prophet of God, would come before Him to prepare the way.

A voice is calling, "Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make smooth in the desert a highway for our God. Let every valley be lifted up, and every mountain and hill be made low; and let the rough ground become a plain, and the rugged terrain a broad valley; Then the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all flesh will see it together; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." (Isaiah 40:3-5)

"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts. (Malachi 3:1)

4.) That He would be betrayed for thirty pieces of silver.

And I said to them, "If it is good in your sight, give me my wages; but if not, never mind!" So they weighed out thirty shekels of silver as my wages. (Zechariah 11:12)

5.) That the money used for His betrayal would be used to buy a potter's field.

Then the LORD said to me, "Throw it to the potter, that magnificent price at which I was valued by them." So I took the thirty shekels of silver and threw them to the potter in the house of the LORD. (Zechariah 11:13)

6.) That He would be silent when accused

He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He did not open His mouth; like a lamb that is led to slaughter, and like a sheep that is silent before its shearers, so He did not open His mouth. (Isaiah 53:7)

7.) That He would be scourged

But He was pierced through for our transgressions, He was crushed for our iniquities; The chastening for our well-being fell upon Him, and by His scourging we are healed. (Isaiah 53:5)

8.) That He would be buried with the rich

His grave was assigned with wicked men, yet He was with a rich man in His death, because He had done no violence, nor was there any deceit in His mouth. (Isaiah 53:9)

9.) That He would be resurrected

For Thou wilt not abandon my soul to Sheol; Neither wilt Thou allow Thy Holy One to undergo decay. (Psalm 16:10)

10.) That He would ascend to Heaven and sit at the right Hand of God.

The LORD said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” - Psalm 110:1

I could go on and on; but you either have to deny that these quotes speak of the Messiah, or that although they speak of the Messiah and that whether these all are true for Jesus or not, you do not believe that He is the messiah.

You say,

Among other things, the Messiah is called a "judge of the nations". He'll settle disputes between them. They would look up to him and learn from him.

I agree, But the Lord is at the right hand of God and He will return to judge the nations. He will return to Israel His people, and renew the covenant with His people. He comes to sit on His throne in Jerusalem, and judge the nations. That's when all the people of the nations will say,

"Let us go to Zion, the mountain of God, and He will teach us His ways"

 

[phuti]

phutui... welcome to my ignore list. :ignore:

Sorry guys, as you can see, I'm quite new to this. It's not often you come around people who would like to discuss religion so because of this, I get/got carried away a bit.

But I'm glad to share views and I respect every persons' views. And my English may not that good so I may occassionally make a bad choice of words, but I apologize because the intention is never to offend.

 

[Mr Cheese]

Well, all hands agree that the scripture hasn't changed.

Sadly the dead sea scrolls show that scripture has changed, as it contains carbon copies and different copies of torah scripture...

sadly then, you are both wrong.

 

[Poisonshady313]

So since you do not believe that Jesus is the Messiah, what do you say about all the signs or the prophecies about Him in the Old Testament that we saw manifest in the New Testament? Here's a few off the top of my head:

I could go on and on; but you either have to deny that these quotes speak of the Messiah, or that although they speak of the Messiah and that whether these all are true for Jesus or not, you do not believe that He is the messiah.

In your whole list, the only verses that speak of the Messiah are these:

A voice is calling, "Clear the way for the LORD in the wilderness; make smooth in the desert a highway for our God. Let every valley be lifted up, and every mountain and hill be made low; and let the rough ground become a plain, and the rugged terrain a broad valley; Then the glory of the LORD will be revealed, and all flesh will see it together; for the mouth of the LORD has spoken." (Isaiah 40:3-5)

"Behold, I am going to send My messenger, and he will clear the way before Me. And the LORD, whom you seek, will suddenly come to His temple; and the messenger of the covenant, in whom you delight, behold, He is coming," says the LORD of hosts. (Malachi 3:1)

And those verses have nothing to do with Jesus.

 

[phuti]

In your whole list, the only verses that speak of the Messiah are these:

And those verses have nothing to do with Jesus.

So the one that speaks of virgin birth or a Son whose name shall be called Immanuel (which means "God is with us"), doesn't speak of the Messiah?

And David saying, "The Lord said to my Lord, sit at my right hand..." doesn't? This Messiah whom David called Lord?

I think either way, you won't agree regardless and I respect that, but to us who have heard and believed, it is Jesus Christ the power and the wisdom of God. He suffered as was foretold, was sold for 30pieces of silver, born in Bethlehem by a virgin, preceeded by a voice in the wilderness saying "Repent for the Kingdom of God is near", which was John whom even unbelieving Jews acknowledged as a prophet, and the list goes on. To us there needs not be more proof. As Jesus has said Himself, that

"All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows who the Son is except the Father, and who the Father is except the Son, and the one to whom the Son wills to reveal Him" - Luke 10

He also said when He prayed:

“I thank You, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that You have hidden these things from the wise and prudent and revealed them to babes. Even so, Father, for so it seemed good in Your sight.

 

[Breathe]

Guys, forgive me for intruding in a same faith debate section, but can I ask what the Hebrew word is in the part of Isaiah that mentions "virgin"? Is it 'almah or betulah, and which one is it that implies actual virginity, and which one implies merely youthfulness/unmarried status?

 

[Poisonshady313]

Guys, forgive me for intruding in a same faith debate section, but can I ask what the Hebrew word is in the part of Isaiah that mentions "virgin"? Is it 'almah or betulah, and which one is it that implies actual virginity, and which one implies merely youthfulness/unmarried status?

The word in Isaiah is Almah.

Betulah means virgin.

Almah implies youth (and nothing else).

A married 18 year old mother of two children can be called an almah... because she is young.