Abraham failed the test.

[Brian2]

Convincing explanation Did Abraham pass the test?

Afterwards
- God doesn't speak directly to Abraham again
- the entire family splits apart, no longer living together

Some religious people use Abraham 's story as justification to do things like kill kids - that doing anything God supposedly commands is righteous.

It is not good to kill your kid, or anyone else's kids.

It's not good to follow any supposed command.

If God asked you to kill your kid, would you do it?

If God asked you to kill someone else's kid, would you do it?

Do you view those who kill in gods name as righteous?

Abraham was pretty confident that it was God who spoke to him and who gave him his son, Isaac, and who commanded him to do things etc.
It was not just anyone asking him to sacrifice Isaac, it was God, the one who gave Isaac to him and said that through Isaac many wonderful things would come to pass.
Abraham was trusting God, that what he promised about Isaac, the gift God gave Abraham, would come true, even if he sacrificed Isaac.
Abraham did not hold back even his Isaac from God, and God did not hold back even His Son Jesus from us, and gave Him for us.
God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness (Gen 15:6) and those also who trust in God through His Son Jesus, have righteousness acredited to them.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Abraham was pretty confident that it was God who spoke to him and who gave him his son, Isaac, and who commanded him to do things etc.

Were you there or do you have some private correspondence not shared with the rest of us?

 

[idea]

That is an ignorant, arrogant, and abusive perversion of Hebrew scripture in particular and origin myths in general.

A story of a father willing to kill his son is a good thing? Taking another wife, then abanding second wife/son - casting them out is a good thing?

 

[idea]

Abraham was pretty confident that it was God who spoke to him and who gave him his son, Isaac, and who commanded him to do things etc.
It was not just anyone asking him to sacrifice Isaac, it was God, the one who gave Isaac to him and said that through Isaac many wonderful things would come to pass.
Abraham was trusting God, that what he promised about Isaac, the gift God gave Abraham, would come true, even if he sacrificed Isaac.
Abraham did not hold back even his Isaac from God, and God did not hold back even His Son Jesus from us, and gave Him for us.
God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness (Gen 15:6) and those also who trust in God through His Son Jesus, have righteousness acredited to them.

I'm not Christian, do not see Christian mythology as redeeming anyone of anything. I would never worship a God who kills their own son.

 

[Ebionite]

Reading this article, the motive for the forgeries, seems to be, "it's easier to forge a text that has no support, no witnesses, and gives clear evidence of being spurious.
Why would the book of Jasher cover the creation of man? When was it written?
I don't know about you, but I think trusting this text opens one to every kind of deception, especially since the almighty didn't see fit to have it included in the closed Hebrew Canon.

While it might be interesting to know what the original contained, it certainly is not important for God's people today. W have all we need. 2 Timothy 3:16, 17

Thank you for the link to the article. The significance of the omission of Jasher from the traditional Jewish canon is the context of the references to it from that same canon. The Jewish canon doesn't support the idea of the anointed being slain in the early first century, though.

Then spake Joshua to YHWH in the day when YHWH delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.
And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. [Is] not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
Joshua 10:12-13

And David said unto him, Thy blood [be] upon thy head; for thy mouth hath testified against thee, saying, I have slain YHWH's anointed.
And David lamented with this lamentation over Saul and over Jonathan his son:
(Also he bade them teach the children of Judah [the use of] the bow: behold, [it is] written in the book of Jasher.)
2 Samuel 1:16-18

Sol, and Luna, Constantine's Arch. Anointed is a translation of משיח, i.e. messiah. Constantine ruled over the Roman cult at the time of the Council of Nicea,

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

A story of a father willing to kill his son is a good thing? Taking another wife, then abanding second wife/son - casting them out is a good thing?

These could all be (and have been for centuries) challenging and interesting discussions, but they prove to be far more valuable when held by people more interested in exploring the texts than trashing them.

 

[idea]

Abraham was pretty confident that it was God who spoke to him and who gave him his son, Isaac, and who commanded him to do things etc.
It was not just anyone asking him to sacrifice Isaac, it was God, the one who gave Isaac to him and said that through Isaac many wonderful things would come to pass.
Abraham was trusting God, that what he promised about Isaac, the gift God gave Abraham, would come true, even if he sacrificed Isaac.
Abraham did not hold back even his Isaac from God, and God did not hold back even His Son Jesus from us, and gave Him for us.
God credited Abraham's faith as righteousness (Gen 15:6) and those also who trust in God through His Son Jesus, have righteousness acredited to them.

Sacrifice = building someone a home, researching cure for disease, giving coat/food/help to someone who needs it.

Harming oneself, harming ones children - this isn't love, it isn't service, isn't righteous.

 

[Brian2]

Were you there or do you have some private correspondence not shared with the rest of us?

Either Abraham was confident or he was a fool and an idiot surely.
Abraham does not get a tick of approval from God for guessing whether it is God speaking to him or just a voice in his head. He gets a tick for believing what God said to him and obeying.

 

[Brian2]

I'm not Christian, do not see Christian mythology as redeeming anyone of anything. I would never worship a God who kills their own son.

One day you will kneel to the living Son of God and confess that He is Lord.
God would have to be foolish to send Jesus to die for us if He knew Jesus would be dead forever.

 

[Brian2]

Sacrifice = building someone a home, researching cure for disease, giving coat/food/help to someone who needs it.

Harming oneself, harming ones children - this isn't love, it isn't service, isn't righteous.

Trusting God and what He tells us is something God wants us to do.

 

[idea]

Trusting God and what He tells us is something God wants us to do.

"God" doesn't exist.

Evil tyrants want everyone to "trust" and obey.

 

[Brian2]

"God" doesn't exist.

Evil tyrants want everyone to "trust" and obey.

It wouldn't be easy to trust and obey someone we do not think exists.
However in the story, Adam and Eve knew God existed and made them and made everything else so it would be a sort of betrayal of God to believe a talking snake instead of God. Similarly with Abraham trusting and obeying someone he knew gave him his son, Isaac and promised great things for Isaac.

 

[idea]

It wouldn't be easy to trust and obey someone we do not think exists.
However in the story, Adam and Eve knew God existed and made them and made everything else so it would be a sort of betrayal of God to believe a talking snake instead of God. Similarly with Abraham trusting and obeying someone he knew gave him his son, Isaac and promised great things for Isaac.

In the story, God made the snake, God made the tree, God wasn't supervising young inexperienced kids, God set up their failure - not kind, not loving, not trustworthy.

No promises kept. The Chinese and India - those are the groups whose populations are the largest - few descendents of Isaac exist.

Promises are weak, empty words of tyrants.

Better to teach children their parents love them, and would do anything to protect them - would stand against anyone or anything who would harm.

I will go to hell before I would kill my child.. This is a better message.

Better to teach stories of people standing against tyrants.

Killing your own child is never justified - it is sick. If needed, I would go to hell for my kids.

 

[Brian2]

In the story, God made the snake, God made the tree, God wasn't supervising young inexperienced kids, God set up their failure - not kind, not loving, not trustworthy.

No promises kept. The Chinese and India - those are the groups whose populations are the largest - few descendents of Isaac exist.

Promises are weak, empty words of tyrants.

Better to teach children their parents love them, and would do anything to protect them - would stand against anyone or anything who would harm.

I will go to hell before I would kill my child.. This is a better message.

Better to teach stories of people standing against tyrants.

Killing your own child is never justified - it is sick. If needed, I would go to hell for my kids.

In the story imo God was teaching A&E and knew they should trust Him instead of anyone else.
The Jews are descendants of Isaac (and there would also be others of course) and what God promised Abraham, that his descendants would be many and that the land of Israel would be theirs the world would be blessed through him has been fulfilled. But we don't see the complete fulfilment yet.
God would do anything to save us, including sending His Son to die for us, and He has done that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Were you there or do you have some private correspondence not shared with the rest of us?

Either Abraham was confident or he was a fool and an idiot surely.

The comment is both nonsensical and unresponsive.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Convincing explanation Did Abraham pass the test?
Afterwards
- God doesn't speak directly to Abraham again
- the entire family splits apart, no longer living together
Some religious people use Abraham 's story as justification to do things like kill kids - that doing anything God supposedly commands is righteous.
It is not good to kill your kid, or anyone else's kids.
It's not good to follow any supposed command.
If God asked you to kill your kid, would you do it?
If God asked you to kill someone else's kid, would you do it?
Do you view those who kill in gods name as righteous?

Seems to me you and others never read the words found at Genesis 22:5
Abraham is perfectly clear that the boy, the lad Isaac would return (come back) with him.
In other words, Abraham had confidence that if Isaac was sacrificed that Isaac would be resurrected.
Abraham was demonstrating confidence in the resurrection promise.
Since Isaac was going along with his father, then Isaac also had confidence in the resurrection.
Isaac would have to be alive in order to marry and have children.

 

[Ebionite]

In other words, Abraham had confidence that if Isaac was sacrificed that Isaac would be resurrected.
Abraham was demonstrating confidence in the resurrection promise.

Problem is that Ezekiel didn't prophesy about resurrection until after Abraham was dead.

 

[Ebionite]

God would do anything to save us

Vanity.

The wicked [shall be] a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.
Proverbs 21:18

 

[idea]

In the story imo God was teaching A&E and knew they should trust Him instead of anyone else.
The Jews are descendants of Isaac (and there would also be others of course) and what God promised Abraham, that his descendants would be many and that the land of Israel would be theirs the world would be blessed through him has been fulfilled. But we don't see the complete fulfilment yet.
God would do anything to save us, including sending His Son to die for us, and He has done that.

Tyrants demand obedience. The story is propaganda of tyrants teaching population to bow their heads and obey.

Killing your child doesn't save anyone, doesn't fulfill justice, isn't merciful, isn't loving.

Education saves. Equal resources for all, working together - not following a tyrant - working together saves.

God doesn't exist. It is imagined stories created by warlords to illicit obedience...

Rewrites of seasonal fertility superstitions - the oldest texts show the origin of this nonsense.

Dumuzid - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Tammuz was just one example of the archetype of a "dying and rising god" found throughout all cultures.[108][107][112]

 

[Brian2]

Vanity.

The wicked [shall be] a ransom for the righteous, and the transgressor for the upright.
Proverbs 21:18

Yes I suppose God would not do anything to save us, however God has sent Jesus, His Son, to suffer and die to save us through our faith in Jesus.
However Prov 21:18 imo means that people would exchange the wicked and unfaithful for the righteous and upright, but probably not the other way round.