Abortion question.

[oldbadger]

During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?

Your Pastor clearly doesn't believe that little children, babies etc get automatic dispensation.
He clearly doesn't take notice of what Jesus said, 'Let them come to me'.
This stuff about Baptism for infants is just strange, really. The Baptist and Jesus, with their disciples, were bringing cleanness and redemtion from sins by immersion to short circuit the Temple and priesthood redemption scams (see what the Baptist said about them all!).

All this ranting against abortions, even of disabled and rape victim fetuses is wonky imo, unless your pastor can show exact clear guidance from Jesus.

 

[nPeace]

It was living people who came out the graves (cemetery) ' after ' Jesus was resurrected.
Those living people appeared unto many.
Jesus was Not, Not resurrected the day he died. Jesus went to the grave at death - Acts of the Apostles 2:27.
The 'day-of-death earthquake' caused the dead bodies (corpses ) to appear ( arose ) above ground.
So, those of Matthew chapter 27 were Not resurrected people.
That is why the ' future tense' is used at Acts of the Apostles 24:15 that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....

Those ' gifts in men ' of Ephesians 4:7-8 are the gifts of Ephesians 4:11-12 given to living people.

Scripture that give support to the truth that no one proceeded Jesus into heaven is Hebrews 6:19, 20.

 

[nPeace]

I didn't know that. Thank you.

I don't find anywhere in scripture where anyone went to heaven before the way to heaven way opened. Jesus is the door, and that door did not manifest, nor was it opened before Jesus came to earth, died, and was raised up. Even then he had to wait a period before beginning his rule, when he first cleansed the heavens of Satan and his demons.

Matthew 11:12; John 10:1-9; Luke 22:28-30; Hebrews 6:19, 20; Revelation 12

 

[Kenny]

What in the world does that even mean. Sounds like you are saying. "well, you're another".

Forest... large. Back yard... small. How did you get lost in such a small group of trees? If I am lost in the forest, it means I have more exposure to what is out there.

 

[BSM1]

Forest... large. Back yard... small. How did you get lost in such a small group of trees? If I am lost in the forest, it means I have more exposure to what is out there.

Uhhhh....okay, I guess? I really never said anything about being lost, just not opening one's eyes to the bigger picture. But, obviously, your assumptions trump my observations.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Scripture that give support to the truth that no one proceeded Jesus into heaven is Hebrews 6:19, 20.

Thank you. Yes, agree Jesus is forerunner - Hebrews 6:20 - No one ascended before Jesus as per John 3:13.
'First fruit' to me also means Jesus was the first resurrected to heavenly life as per 1 Corinthians 15:20.
So, then there is the order of rank, so to speak. After Jesus there are those of Revelation 20:6 who have a first or earlier resurrection after Jesus but before the rest of mankind.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Your Pastor clearly doesn't believe that little children, babies etc get automatic dispensation.
He clearly doesn't take notice of what Jesus said, 'Let them come to me'.
This stuff about Baptism for infants is just strange, really................

Yes, strange because before Christian baptism a person must dedicate himself to God. Infants can't do that.
As far as minor children are concerned, I find they are protected by the 'believing' parent -> 1 Corinthians 7:14.
Those children are considered as holy.

 

[oldbadger]

Yes, strange because before Christian baptism a person must dedicate himself to God. Infants can't do that.

Infants don't need to, for sure.
Auto-dispensation for kids, according to Jesus, so obviously that would be important for Christians?

As far as minor children are concerned, I find they are protected by the 'believing' parent -> 1 Corinthians 7:14.
Those children are considered as holy.

OK, so Paul has covered it.
I think that all children, people, sparrows, animals have the same degree of dispensation as each other, but that's a deist talking.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

If children are covered, then why get baptized as an adult? Is it like a tetanus vaccine and you need to do periodic boosters to maintain immunity?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?

Sounds like your pastor needs more questioning, not less.

 

[oldbadger]

If children are covered, then why get baptized as an adult? Is it like a tetanus vaccine and you need to do periodic boosters to maintain immunity?

The Jews needed to...... they had to bring most (if not all) of their savings to Jerusalem at least once a year, and after being conned left right and centre by the localsa for bed and board they finally got drained of the rest in the Temple, all to feel cleansed.
And then came the Baptist, totally cheesed off with the whole corrupt hypocrisy, and met them as they trudged Southwards, offering totally free redemption and cleansing in the Jordan for nothing save maybe a small gratuity to his disciples, so they could go home with their savings.
No doubt falling trade and Temple takings put pressure on Antipas to go out and bring him in.
And Jesus joined with him until the arrest, I expect....

And how this all got convoluted into this Christian stuff I just couldn't tell you.......

 

[URAVIP2ME]

If children are covered, then why get baptized as an adult? Is it like a tetanus vaccine and you need to do periodic boosters to maintain immunity?

I find minor children are covered by the believing parent as per 1 Corinthians 7:14.
Children are Not born believing. And requirements for baptism requires repentance and dedication to God.
So, there is No infant baptism in Scripture, but for those old enough to make a committed dedication to God.

 

[Secret Chief]

During church service a few weeks ago our pastor gave a sermon about abortion. He said that because the babies are not properly baptized they cannot enter The Kingdom of Heaven. That of course is a given. However what he went on to say afterwords left a lot of the congregation scratching their heads. He spoke of the unclean spirits of the unsaved babies haunting the wombs of their promiscuous mothers as punishment from God. I don't like to question my pastor, but this doesn't seem biblically sound to me. It seems obvious that the souls of the aborted babies would go strait to hell rather than hang around and torment their mothers as ghosts in their wombs? Perhaps I misunderstood him. If not, I wonder if the hauntings stop if they repent?

Ghosts in wombs? Do you listen to heavy metal, it sounds like it. Da-dum Da-dum THRUNG!