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A Zoom Seder?

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
On 25 March the Times of Israel ran an article titled 14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say Passover Seder can be held via videoconference. Lest we think that we're talking about one big Jewish family, the article notes:

While lenient religious rulings in Israel are often backed by rabbis from the liberal wing of Orthodoxy, this statement appears to be backed by more mainstream figures, although none are Ashkenazi. They include Eliyahu Abergel, head of Jerusalem’s rabbinical court, local rabbis such as Kiryat Gat’s Chief Rabbi Shlomo Ben Hamo, and yeshiva rabbis such as Eyal Vered of Jerusalem’s Machon Meir institution.

Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi David Lau on Wednesday morning criticized the ruling, branding it “irresponsible, beyond ridiculous.”

Two Jews, three opinions.

Friday morning I was part of a zoom class run by a highly regarded orthodox rabbi and the issue of zoom seders arose. What I found interesting was that he did not focus on whether such seders were acceptable. Rather, he noted that we seek out such opportunities because the communal gathering of extended family and friends is important in our tradition. He then suggested that we have a unique opportunity to focus on a different perspective this year. And what is that perspective?

We are told at the seder that each of us must imagine that we too had experienced the Exodus from Egypt. And according to that tradition our first proto-seder was a harrowing one where we huddled at home in family units, blood on our doorposts, afraid to go out as the firstborn was slaughtered throughout the land.

I think I'll dispense with zoom seders this year.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I've always found a sort of mismatch -- the notion that the Korban Pesach could only be eaten by family members (IIRC people had to be "registered" as to which family they were "with" for the eating) and the notion of the seder being an "anyone can join us" kind of commemoration. Is it wrong of me that I have always preferred a smaller, more intimate seder?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
As I think was noted in the other thread, the question was asked for the sick and elderly who are stuck in their homes and may become depressed. The responsa also mentions people who would not otherwise attend the Seder if not for the connection to their parents/grandparents. It's also required that meeting be set up before the holiday starts as they don't permit touching the device on the holiday. Lastly, this is a ruling by Sephardic Rabbis where part of the leniency relies on the lenient opinion of earlier Sephardic Rabbis. They note that Ashkenazi Rabbinical opinion has always been stringent on this issue.
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
I've always found a sort of mismatch -- the notion that the Korban Pesach could only be eaten by family members (IIRC people had to be "registered" as to which family they were "with" for the eating) and the notion of the seder being an "anyone can join us" kind of commemoration. Is it wrong of me that I have always preferred a smaller, more intimate seder?
How small and intimate is “smaller and more intimate”?
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
We are told at the seder that each of us must imagine that we too had experienced the Exodus from Egypt. And according to that tradition our first proto-seder was a harrowing one where we huddled at home in family units, blood on our doorposts, afraid to go out as the firstborn was slaughtered throughout the land.
I'm not 100% sure if that was actually the case. The Passover sacrifice has an additional Law called "Subscription" in which each sacrifice had to have enough people eating it to completion. This requirement is mentioned in Ex. 12:4 which is still "Passover in Egypt". To me it suggests that people weren't huddled in their home - at least not alone. I'd be interested in any commentaries that discuss this.

Regardless, I'm not encouraging anyone to use Zoom, that's for sure.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
I'm not 100% sure if that was actually the case. The Passover sacrifice has an additional Law called "Subscription" in which each sacrifice had to have enough people eating it to completion. This requirement is mentioned in Ex. 12:4 which is still "Passover in Egypt". To me it suggests that people weren't huddled in their home - at least not alone. I'd be interested in any commentaries that discuss this.

Regardless, I'm not encouraging anyone to use Zoom, that's for sure.

Does sharing a lamb with my neighbor imply inviting that neighbor dine with me?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
He then suggested that we have a unique opportunity to focus on a different perspective this year. And what is that perspective?
The perspective that comes from experiencing this unique form of bitterness, isolation?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
How small and intimate is “smaller and more intimate”?
I grew up with my parents' hosting community seders -- 30, 40 people or more. For the last few years I have been at a seder with my wife and a local friend. Three people. This year, I will be with my wife and 2 kids. Four of us. I really do prefer fewer people. I would be happy doing it alone so I could stop when I wanted, look things up, explore and not have to worry about "leading."
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
Forgive the ignorant question, but could they not have killed it during the day and divided it before nightfall?
I'm not really sure if the logistics would work or not. They could only start slaughtering it after noon (there are varying opinions on how close to sundown it needs to be). After slaughtering it, they need to perform the sacrificial procedure as well as paint their door posts. Then they need to prepare the carcass. It needed to be roasted whole and they'd pin the legs onto the back (Ex. 12:9). So how long would it take to roast an entire lamb? I'd guess a few hours, but I'm no expert.

On the one hand, I'd expect that these people were much better at dressing carcasses and getting it from alive to roasting on a spit than I am. On the other hand, the whole procedure from start to finish had to have taken a few hours, and they only had at most maybe 6 hours to get everything done. It seems like it would require some rushing that we don't really see from the verses.

On top of that, if there really was the expectation that everyone would run their own sacrifices, why include the part about having neighbors get in on it altogether? Yes, there's the requirement that it be completely consumed, but there's also the rectifying command that leftovers be burned if there are any, so it's not strictly necessary to have neighbors help you finish the sacrifice. So why bring the neighbors into it? It seems to me like there was an element of community or extended family here.
 

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
On 25 March the Times of Israel ran an article titled 14 Sephardic Orthodox rabbis say Passover Seder can be held via videoconference. Lest we think that we're talking about one big Jewish family, the article notes:

While lenient religious rulings in Israel are often backed by rabbis from the liberal wing of Orthodoxy, this statement appears to be backed by more mainstream figures, although none are Ashkenazi. They include Eliyahu Abergel, head of Jerusalem’s rabbinical court, local rabbis such as Kiryat Gat’s Chief Rabbi Shlomo Ben Hamo, and yeshiva rabbis such as Eyal Vered of Jerusalem’s Machon Meir institution.

Ashkenazi Chief Rabbi David Lau on Wednesday morning criticized the ruling, branding it “irresponsible, beyond ridiculous.”

Two Jews, three opinions.

Friday morning I was part of a zoom class run by a highly regarded orthodox rabbi and the issue of zoom seders arose. What I found interesting was that he did not focus on whether such seders were acceptable. Rather, he noted that we seek out such opportunities because the communal gathering of extended family and friends is important in our tradition. He then suggested that we have a unique opportunity to focus on a different perspective this year. And what is that perspective?

We are told at the seder that each of us must imagine that we too had experienced the Exodus from Egypt. And according to that tradition our first proto-seder was a harrowing one where we huddled at home in family units, blood on our doorposts, afraid to go out as the firstborn was slaughtered throughout the land.

I think I'll dispense with zoom seders this year.

i did Zoom Sedar, it was great! I drank my 4 glasses before we could answer all the questions in the Chatbox !!
 
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