A simple case for intelligent design

[Milton Platt]

There is no water outside the universe...Lord Krishna just told me...and He knows all.

And... this concept of your mainly involves 1) no scientist knowing with any certainty what happens outside our universe/in a multiverse/in another dimension/prior to planck time and the singularity's expansion and 2) your presumption that nothing in the Bible could possibly be true.

If you admit no scientist knows with any certainty what happens outside the universe, why are you stating that you do?

State your hypothesis, provide actual physics and cosmology to support it

As someone once said, “Withou actual data, you’re just another a**hole with an opinion”.

 

[BilliardsBall]

No, I am not saying that it is unscientific to postulate that there are things outside of the observable universe. I am saying that it is unreasonable to postulate *water in that quantity* just outside of our universe. For one thing, what prevents it from evaporating immediately?

Is that a joke? Evaporating to where?

 

[BilliardsBall]

If you admit no scientist knows with any certainty what happens outside the universe, why are you stating that you do?

State your hypothesis, provide actual physics and cosmology to support it

As someone once said, “Withou actual data, you’re just another a**hole with an opinion”.

Huh?

1) Time dilation throughout the universe/gravity wells are real
2) Several Christian physicists have pondered the Bible statements about water and creation in Genesis and elsewhere
3) A large body of water (immense, incredibly immense) could create a gravitational pull on the universe

You are welcome to read their papers, however, you will likely conclude: "So what? The Bible says the universe is apart from water, and water could account for a young Solar System and old universe, but why should I believe any physicist who starts a hypothesis, 'If the Bible is true'..."

 

[SkepticThinker]

Huh?

1) Time dilation throughout the universe/gravity wells are real
2) Several Christian physicists have pondered the Bible statements about water and creation in Genesis and elsewhere
3) A large body of water (immense, incredibly immense) could create a gravitational pull on the universe

You are welcome to read their papers, however, you will likely conclude: "So what? The Bible says the universe is apart from water, and water could account for a young Solar System and old universe, but why should I believe any physicist who starts a hypothesis, 'If the Bible is true'..."

Because they're being honest ....

 

[Audie]

Because they're being honest ....

For a touch of clarity there, it is the very definition of
intellectual dishonesty to start with a conclusion.

Of course, it is not impossible to get excellent
research anyway.

All anyone really has to do is solid research.

The idea of some vast body of water "out there"
is not the product of solid research. It is an
ideologically driven attempt at force-fitting.

The kind of "wild speculation" that we hear from
crreos, who are trying to criticize ToE.

 

[SkepticThinker]

For a touch of clarity there, it is the very definition of
intellectual dishonesty to start with a conclusion.

Of course, it is not impossible to get excellent
research anyway.

All anyone really has to do is solid research.

The idea of some vast body of water "out there"
is not the product of solid research. It is an
ideologically driven attempt at force-fitting.

The kind of "wild speculation" that we hear from
crreos, who are trying to criticize ToE.

Yes!

 

[Milton Platt]

Is that a joke? Evaporating to where?

Water boils off into a vapor in the absense of air pressure. Are you going to also postulate that the universe is surrounded by an atmosphere?

 

[Audie]

Water boils off into a vapor in the absense of air pressure. Are you going to also postulate that the universe is surrounded by an atmosphere?

Here we thought there was a restaurant
at the end of t he universe*. Well, turns
out to be water.

The hypothetical water is surrounded by-
nothing. Nowhere to go.

Besides of which, at near absolute zero there
aint no vapour pressure.

If you need more explanations, make some up.


*others have claimed that there is simply a wall,
and a big sign in every script from every planet
that has writing.

in English, which you will find after great diligence,
you will see that it says

HALT THIS IS THE END OF THE UNIVERSE"

A hole in the wall is provided for those who want
to check for themselves.

Those who've looked found that, sure enough,
there is nothing there.

 

[Milton Platt]

Here we thought there was a restaurant
at the end of t he universe*. Well, turns
out to be water.

The hypothetical water is surrounded by-
nothing. Nowhere to go.

Besides of which, at near absolute zero there
aint no vapour pressure.

If you need more explanations, make some up.


*others have claimed that there is simply a wall,
and a big sign in every script from every planet
that has writing.

in English, which you will find after great diligence,
you will see that it says

HALT THIS IS THE END OF THE UNIVERSE"

A hole in the wall is provided for those who want
to check for themselves

Those who've looked found that, sure enough,
there is nothing there.

Thank you for the elucidation. It’s all much clearer now.

In actuality, one could deduce that in the absense of an all encompassing heat source for the space outside the universe (if such a place exists), water could only exist temporarily as a solid, from which it would sublimate directly into a vapor. There would be no reason to postulate that the space outside the universe contains more heat than the space within the universe.

 

[Milton Platt]

Huh?

1) Time dilation throughout the universe/gravity wells are real

You are saying that you know what happens/exists outside the universe........not inside the universe

2) Several Christian physicists have pondered the Bible statements about water and creation in Genesis and elsewhere
Why are you trying to distinguish the physicists by their religion? Physics is physics.

3) A large body of water (immense, incredibly immense) could create a gravitational pull on the universe

So could an immense,incredibly immense turtle.......for which there is equally compelling evidence.

You are welcome to read their papers, however, you will likely conclude: "So what? The Bible says the universe is apart from water, and water could account for a young Solar System and old universe, but why should I believe any physicist who starts a hypothesis, 'If the Bible is true'..."

So what are the names of the physicists who wrote research papers that conclude that the universe was surrounded by water?

 

[Audie]

Thank you for the elucidation. It’s all much clearer now.

In actuality, one could deduce that in the absense of an all encompassing heat source for the space outside the universe (if such a place exists), water could only exist temporarily as a solid, from which it would sublimate directly into a vapor. There would be no reason to postulate that the space outside the universe contains more heat than the space within the universe.

You do know that there is ice on the moon?

This must be a very leisurely sublimation you speak of.

 

[Milton Platt]

You do know that there is ice on the moon?

This must be a very leisurely sublimation you speak of.

We don't know how much water was originally on the moon (not much, I would suppose) or if any was added over the course of history. Sublimation is the process used to freeze dry foods today. You freeze the food and then place it under a vacuum. The ice turns from a solid directly to a vapor, bypassing the liquid stage.

How Freeze-Drying Works

On the moon, I think the the ice would sublimate as the sun hits a portion of it, and then recrystallize when the surface faces away from the sun. Not sure about that.......

You generally see ice on the moon inside deep craters. In any case, yes, the sublimation process is extremely slow at such low temperatures.

 

[Audie]

We don't know how much water was originally on the moon (not much, I would suppose) or if any was added over the course of history. Sublimation is the process used to freeze dry foods today. You freeze the food and then place it under a vacuum. The ice turns from a solid directly to a vapor, bypassing the liquid stage.

How Freeze-Drying Works

On the moon, I think the the ice would sublimate as the sun hits a portion of it, and then recrystallize when the surface faces away from the sun. Not sure about that.......

You generally see ice on the moon inside deep craters. In any case, yes, the sublimation process is extremely slow at such low temperatures.

I did enough chemistry to know what
sublimation is.

How fast an imaginary water water / ice
end of the universe canopy might sublimate
to wherever is a bit too angels-on-a-
pinhead for further talk.

 

[Milton Platt]

I did enough chemistry to know what
sublimation is.

How fast an imaginary water water / ice
end of the universe canopy might sublimate
to wherever is a bit too angels-on-a-
pinhead for further talk.

True enough, Audie.

Sorry, I assumed you were asking about sublimation because you were unaware of the process. My bad.

 

[Audie]

True enough, Audie.

Sorry, I assumed you were asking about sublimation because you were unaware of the process. My bad.

No prob, but- Mom taught me well when she said
to look things up! So I would have known anyway.

When I was in grade school I wondered why the
ice cubes where shrinking in the freezer. That
was when the subject first came up, far as I recall.

 

[Polymath257]

Is that a joke? Evaporating to where?

Well, given that our universe is a vacuum, into it. And that process would be both fast and energetic.

But, of course, the whole proposal is more a joke than anything else.

 

[Polymath257]

Huh?

1) Time dilation throughout the universe/gravity wells are real
2) Several Christian physicists have pondered the Bible statements about water and creation in Genesis and elsewhere
3) A large body of water (immense, incredibly immense) could create a gravitational pull on the universe

You are welcome to read their papers, however, you will likely conclude: "So what? The Bible says the universe is apart from water, and water could account for a young Solar System and old universe, but why should I believe any physicist who starts a hypothesis, 'If the Bible is true'..."

No, you don't get it. I would immediately discount any physicist that started a hypothesis with 'suppose there is water surrounding the observable universe'. That is already so far out there that any reference to the Bible is just beside the point.

 

[Audie]

Well, given that our universe is a vacuum, into it. And that process would be both fast and energetic.

But, of course, the whole proposal is more a joke than anything else.

I am no physicist, but, why then is there ice on the moon.

 

[Astrophile]

Did you know, some people interested in cosmology said if great waters surrounded the universe, it would create a time dilation/relative effect where we could have a young Earth in an old universe?

Can you tell me the names of these cosmologists and give links to their published papers?

 

[Astrophile]

1) Time dilation throughout the universe/gravity wells are real
2) Several Christian physicists have pondered the Bible statements about water and creation in Genesis and elsewhere
3) A large body of water (immense, incredibly immense) could create a gravitational pull on the universe

You are welcome to read their papers, however, you will likely conclude: "So what? The Bible says the universe is apart from water, and water could account for a young Solar System and old universe, but why should I believe any physicist who starts a hypothesis, 'If the Bible is true'..."

As before, who are these physicists, and where can I read their papers? Also, if there is a spherical shell of water that envelops the observable universe and is concentric with it, it does not create a gravitational field in the observable universe.