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Featured A quick question for Christians

Discussion in 'Interfaith Discussion' started by Eddi, Mar 12, 2019.

  1. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I did not write the Bible. I can only read what it says. And it says the Father draws those who he chooses. That must mean there is some process by which he decides. I do not pretend to know what God thinks but I can read that he chooses some people and not others. He may have unconditional love for everyone but still understands their inner thoughts and knows who will follow him and do his will. That is not up to me to decide.
     
  2. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Those who do evil and are not willing to change are not called. Better?
     
  3. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    John 3:16 says God gave his son that whosoever BELIEVES in him should have life. Some do not believe. They do not have life. It is not predestination, it is a choice.
     
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  4. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    I think I understand your position, now, but I must say I still think you are drawing (haha) a conclusion that does not necessarily follow. It seems to me that the Father may tend to draw everyone but this does not always result in the person being drawn. That is because I am a believer both in free will and in the existence of a wide variety of circumstances that may lead a virtuous person not to follow a particular faith.
     
  5. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of people do not have that choice. Furthermore, this verse does not say that those who do not believe in him cannot have "life", whatever metaphorical meaning one attaches to that idea.
     
  6. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Well if those who believe have life and those who do not believe can also have life then believing really does not make a difference. I prefer to take God at his word but you are free to believe what you want.
     
  7. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    That was kind of an unnecessary put-down. People don't all need to agree in order to be "taking God at His word." Are you saying that everyone who has ever lived has had the opportunity to believe in Jesus Christ? If so, would you mind telling us how this is even possible? How would someone who lived in 4th-century China have even heard of Jesus Christ? And if you know anything about life in 21st-century North Korea, you know that the average citizen there knows absolutely nothing about Christ.
     
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  8. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Not much better, actually. How do you know that they have not been called, but just chose to ignore the call?
     
  9. exchemist

    exchemist Well-Known Member

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    You mean you refer to take one interpretation, of one holy book, out of all the religions of the world, as definitive. Making you right, and everyone else wrong.

    This is what I have found facile and rather preposterous, ever since I lived in another culture for a while. Who is to say that any one religion, or sect within a religion, has a monopoly on the truth? How could an objective person ever decide who was right and who was wrong?

    Is it not better to acknowledge that we all see through a glass darkly?
     
  10. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Most will have their chance in the next life when Jesus returns and they rise from their graves. Then everyone will have an equal chance.
     
  11. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    The same way you know everything.
     
  12. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Yes, we are all free to believe God or not.
     
  13. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Could you explain that a little more precisely, please. Are you saying that after we are all resurrected, those who didn't have a chance to hear of Jesus Christ during mortality will have a chance? In other words, are you saying they will learn of Christ as resurrected beings? I've never heard that belief before. It's similar but not quite the same as the Jehovah's Witnesses belief.
     
  14. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Excuse me? I've never said I know everything, and would never make such a presumptuous claim. I'm not sure if you're trying to be sarcastic or what, but that statement makes no sense to me. Would you mind explaining what you meant? (To repeat the question: How do you know that someone has not been called, but just chose to ignore the call?)
     
    #54 Katzpur, Mar 15, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2019
  15. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Don't know anything about JW's. I know God would always be completely fair and equal to every person who ever lived. Those who never had a chance in this mortal life will have their chance in the next life.
     
  16. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    I am sure you think everything you believe is true and correct. I also believe the same. We are all free to believe anything we want. That does not make everyone correct. I think my beliefs are correct in the same way you think your beliefs are correct.
     
  17. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Because God calls who He wants. If he does not want you he does not call.
     
  18. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    I believe that, too. I'm glad we can agree on that.
    Here's where you're losing me. First of all, do you believe in a physical resurrection, i.e. the reuniting of the spirit with a newly perfected immortal body? If so, do you believe this "chance" will be after the resurrection? How does the Final Judgment fit into the time table, according to your belief? Will these people who hadn't heard of Christ be in Heaven or Hell when they get their chance to learn of Him?
     
  19. Katzpur

    Katzpur Not your average Mormon

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    Okay. I do have faith in my beliefs, but I certainly could be wrong about any number of things. I certain don't claim to "know" anything for sure. But you still haven't answered my question as to how you have come to the assumption that God doesn't call some people to believe in Christ, when it seems to me that we have no way of knowing that He didn't call everybody and some just chose to ignore the call. I'm just wondering if you're basing your belief on scripture or something else. And if it's on scripture, could you point me to the passages you're thinking of?
     
  20. lostwanderingsoul

    lostwanderingsoul Well-Known Member

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    Well, first of all, no one goes to Heaven or Hell the way most people think. Anyway, Jesus will reign over the earth for one thousand years. During that time the resurrected people will learn about God without the influence of Satan and will have the chance to believe the truth.
     
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