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A question for my Yankee neighbours

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Who asked ya!!!! :)

I have, for most of my adult life, voted for the person who I felt would do the least damage and I have done pretty good with that approach. Only once did I vote for the guy I thought was best for the job and I am not so sure I got that one right. This time however I cannot figure out who will do the least damage and there is no best so......
I've always tried voting for the best candidate.
They've never once won.....local or national.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
But those are capitalist countries, so I don't see your point here.
No they're not. They are mixed economic systems, with a good deal more socialism in the mix than the USA.
On the internet and in real life both. Likely a good deal of confirmation bias there, but it is what I see.
Who is "pretending" this, & how do you know such a view is disingenuous?
There are lots of people who preach this. Many are libertarian and republican types. Not that I am naming names, such as yours ;)
Find me a better system than capitalism, & we'll talk.
Mixed economic systems, like the other 1st world countries have. Basic needs are rights. Luxury items are not.
Btw, you identify as a "conservative", but it seems you despise capitalism.
You're even odder than I am!
I try to be rational and nuanced. Capitalism is great for allocation of sports cars, boobjobs, game apps, and antique machines. Prenatal care, education, nutrition, potable water, housing, security, not so much. I'll call those things human rights and to the extent that our capitalism doesn't deliver I do despise it. Compare the USA to Sweden and Mexico and we are altogether too similar to Mexico. I despise that.
Tom
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
you identify as a "conservative",
Well, really I don't. Merely supporting the most conservative of the 4-5 top presidential candidates doesn't really make me one. Although supporting her while not supporting the culture of victimhood that seems to be so popular amongst "liberal" people probably explains your confusion.
Tom
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
No they're not. They are mixed economic systems, with a good deal more socialism in the mix than the USA.
I suspect that you include social welfare in "socialism".
Supporting unproductive citizens & assisting the others is not part of the means of production.
People raise capital to start & run businesses. This is capitalism.
And as you say, it's "mixed", so the corrupting influence of capitalism is there.
Where are the non-capitalist systems with better news than the systems with capitalism?
On the internet and in real life both. Likely a good deal of confirmation bias there, but it is what I see.
There are lots of people who preach this. Many are libertarian and republican types. Not that I am naming names, such as yours ;)
Smells like straw.....uncited quotes form unnamed sources......those people are the worst!
Like those unnamed Democrats who hate black folk, only want their votes, want to keep them unarmed, & hate God.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, really I don't. Merely supporting the most conservative of the 4-5 top presidential candidates doesn't really make me one. Although supporting her while not supporting the culture of victimhood that seems to be so popular amongst "liberal" people probably explains your confusion.
Tom
Be careful posting in the Conservative Only forum.
One is supposed to identify as such, & be of generally like mind as one's fellows there.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
But those are capitalist countries, so I don't see your point here.
They may have a Capitalist market of goods (though with stricter regulations in many areas), and they a good deal of socialism. Germany recently decided their cheap as dirt college tuition was cost prohibitive for too many, so they made it tuition free. They generally all have health care as a given that costs them nothing more than what is deducted for their taxes. In Canada, every child regardless of immigration status is entitled to an education, and they even their tourists are covered under their health insurance if the have an emergency. In Norway, the government set up a fund that has made everyone, in theory according to the economic stuff, a millionaire. And that's what socialism is - the government taking care of its people. Many nations are finding it's a good fit with Capitalism because it addresses many of the complaints of Capitalism, while addressing many concerns of ethical obligations of expanding rights, potential for economic advancement, and raising the lowest to raise all of society together.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
They may have a Capitalist market of goods (though with stricter regulations in many areas), and they a good deal of socialism. Germany recently decided their cheap as dirt college tuition was cost prohibitive for too many, so they made it tuition free. They generally all have health care as a given that costs them nothing more than what is deducted for their taxes. In Canada, every child regardless of immigration status is entitled to an education, and they even their tourists are covered under their health insurance if the have an emergency. In Norway, the government set up a fund that has made everyone, in theory according to the economic stuff, a millionaire. And that's what socialism is - the government taking care of its people. Many nations are finding it's a good fit with Capitalism because it addresses many of the complaints of Capitalism, while addressing many concerns of ethical obligations of expanding rights, potential for economic advancement, and raising the lowest to raise all of society together.
No one is answering my question about where the news is better in non-capitalist countries.
Instead, I get nothing but arguments that capitalist countries are actually socialist.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
BBC and Reuter's certainly are of a much higher caliber than Fox or MSNBC (I've not really watched the news in other places).

They're saying it's a merging of the two.
We'll never resolve that.
But back to the earlier claim about capitalism corrupting news.
I maintain that it sure beats socialism corrupting the news.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
What's the difference?
Under capitalism, anyone can offer news, so there's diversity of opinion.
Under socialism, one cannot start a company which competes with the
"people's news". I like having a variety of choices of corrupted news.`
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
A lot of people I respect intensely dislike Hillary Clinton.

I don't love her, and don't entirely agree with her platform; she's not very charismatic; but I don't understand the hatred.

Aside from Benghazi, and the emails ... both of which I looked into, neither of which I found compelling ... as Bernie said "I'm tired of hearing about your damn emails" ... can someone please set me straight on why she is such a terrible person? I feel like I must be missing something.

I am also aware of her giving speeches to Wall Street firms and not disclosing the transcripts ... again, does not cause me to hate her more than most politicians. I looked into the allegation that she and Bill stole furniture from the White House and found that claim didn't hold water either ....

She flip flopped on gay marriage ... okay ... as did many politicians ...

The only claim against her character that I found really does hold water is she lied about being under sniper fire in Bosnia (I think it was Bosnia, anyway).

Perhaps, could a Democrat or liberal or Bernie supporter cite some examples / evidence for me?

There isn't any. It's tough being a target for 25 years.

She isn't the ideal candidate as you say. But she is not the antichrist either. Just as Obama has done a decent job all things considered but has been labeled as 'the worst in 50 years'... It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
There isn't any. It's tough being a target for 25 years.

She isn't the ideal candidate as you say. But she is not the antichrist either. Just as Obama has done a decent job all things considered but has been labeled as 'the worst in 50 years'... It would be funny if it weren't so sad.
Wrong!
I have proof.
Here she is strategizing with her main supporter....
antichrist-540x298.jpg


That's why I'm voting for.....
th


Uh oh......
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
I had a co-worker today tell me that we would not survive another 4 years with another Obama. I asked, 'why not'? Took him 30 seconds of spitting and sputtering to come up with an answer and it involved lost freedom (nonsense), guns being taken away (none have been taken) and executive orders.

It was hard not to laugh but I have to tread lightly. People don't take kindly to libruls around here.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
Under capitalism, anyone can offer news, so there's diversity of opinion.
Under socialism, one cannot start a company which competes with the
"people's news". I like having a variety of choices of corrupted news.`
That simply is not true as Socialism inherently includes no such laws.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
I would also point out that there are plenty of capitalist countries who suffer from government controlled media, directly or indirectly.
Like the time Mike Pence wanted a state news outlet that he was hoping other state news sources would look to for their own news to report. Yet another time he embarrassed the state:
www.indystar.com/story/news/politics/2015/01/29/pence-ditches-state-run-news-site-plan-after-uproar/22530263/
Gov. Mike Pence killed his administration's plans for a state-run news service Thursday amid a national uproar that spurred ridicule for the idea across the political spectrum.

Pence announced in a memo to state agency heads that they would no longer be launching the JustIN website and that they would instead update the state's online press release system and state calendar.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
That simply is not true as Socialism inherently includes no such laws.
It is not part of the definition of "socialism", but it is an inevitable effect.
If people were allowed to start companies on their own, then this would become rampant.
So in all fully socialist countries such as N Korea, the old PRC, the old USSR, the old Cuba,
the authorities simply don't/didn't allow it. Thus, their only news is state news.

An example of this kind of news....

Remember to not eat your yummy birds until Tuesday.
But you can eat snow today.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I would also point out that there are plenty of capitalist countries who suffer from government controlled media, directly or indirectly.
Of course, authoritarian governments can exist under capitalism.
But under full blown socialism, authoritarian governments are the only type to emerge.
Fans of socialism have still yet to show any such regime with better news coverage than provided in countries rife us capitalist running dogs.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber
And just to further how nuts Pence--the "Christian, Conservative, and Republican in that order"--actually is, he has even claimed that smoking doesn't kill, isn't linked to lung cancer, and dismissed such claims as "media and political hysteria."
 
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