a question avoided to explain by Jews and Christains

[Godobeyer]

I want to the christains explain to me this plz .


I want you to explain to me this citation in this verse "Deuteronomy 32:21" "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation "

Deuteronomy 32:21 " They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people;I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

and I want from the christians to explain to me this verse

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

 

[outhouse]

dont start hate wars here

the blade slices both ways

 

[Godobeyer]

I did not start hate wars , we are discusing religion (verses in bible) , where is the hate ?
I am not here to ask what your best movie , or what is your prefer coulour, it's a commun religion discusions , there is a clear question and it's will suppose that there is clear answser .

 

[Me Myself]

It´s a religious forum and it is on "religious debates" section. Aside from the inflamatory way of phrasing, seems reasonable question to me.

 

[Godobeyer]

It´s a religious forum and it is on "religious debates" section. Aside from the inflamatory way of phrasing, seems reasonable question to me.

thanks Mr Me Myself

 

[SCHIZO]

I want to the christains explain to me this plz .


I want you to explain to me this citation in this verse "Deuteronomy 32:21" "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation "

Deuteronomy 32:21 " They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people;I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

and I want from the christians to explain to me this verse

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

The whole parable that precedes Matthew 21: 43 is about Jesus prophesying the destruction of the house of Israel. The vineyard is then given to the gentiles as Jesus builds the new temple, which is his body. That's what Jesus prophesied and that is exactly what happened. References to the destruction of the house of Israel can be found throughout Jesus' teachings in the New Testament.

 

[Godobeyer]

thanks SCHIZO for reply
at the first verse in the old testement , God clearly warning the jews that he will provoke them by fool nation ?
the question is : what is that nation ?
and were they (jews) provoked or not yet ?

 

[SCHIZO]

thanks SCHIZO for reply
at the first verse in the old testement , God clearly warning the jews that he will provoke them by fool nation ?
the question is : what is that nation ?
and were they (jews) provoked or not yet ?

Tell you the truth I'm not really sure. I'll probably have to read all of Deuteronomy to get that one.

 

[Photonic]

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I want to the christains explain to me this plz .

I want you to explain to me this citation in this verse "Deuteronomy 32:21" "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation "

Hopefully you'll let a Jew offer the following commentary ...

Deuteronomy 32:21 They incensed Me with no-gods,
Vexed Me with their futilities;
I'll incense them with a no-folk,
Vex them with a nation of fools

21. God will punish Israel measure for measure, treating it as it treated Him. As Israel incensed Him by favoring non-gods (lo'-'el) He will "incense" it by favoring a non-people (lo'-'am), a nation of fools (goy naval), sending it to invade Israel.

a no-folk ... a nation of fools The second phrase means "a nation of dullards, villains" (goy naval). Israel is characterized similarly ('am naval) in verse 6. The description of the enemy as a no-folk and a nation of fools is reminiscent of stereotypical Mesopotamian characterizations of nomadic, "uncivilized" outlanders, particularly the Gutians, as "not classed among people, not reckoned as part of the [civilized] land ... people who know no inhibitions, with human instinct but canine intelligence ...," "stupid people," "who were never shown how to worship a god, who do not know how to properly perform rites and observances." It is impossible to identify the enemy described in Deuteronomy with certainty, but unless its characterization as barbarian is purely rhetorical, it is likely to be a nomadic or semi nomadic invader such as the Midianites, Amalekites, or Kedemites (Judges 6:2-6)

- from The JPS Torah Commentary: Deuteronomy quoting J. S. Cooper, The Curse of Agade (Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press, 1983), 30-33

This was probably not what you were hoping for but, alas, such is life ...

 

[SCHIZO]

Hopefully you'll let a Jew offer the following commentary ...This was probably not what you were hoping for but, alas, such is life ...

You seem to know your Tanakh.

 

[Muffled]

I want to the christains explain to me this plz .


I want you to explain to me this citation in this verse "Deuteronomy 32:21" "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation "

Deuteronomy 32:21 " They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people;I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."

and I want from the christians to explain to me this verse

Matthew 21:43 "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof."

The Kingdom of God belongs to Jesus and actually exists throughout the whole world. I am a subject of the King in that kingdom.

 

[Godobeyer]

Hopefully you'll let a Jew offer the following commentary ...This was probably not what you were hoping for but, alas, such is life ...

you just add another arguments to mind , thank you very much for your support , because they are too close to meaning to my verses.....God of course talking to the jews in all these verses , and all mention that the kingdom of God will taken from Jews to another nation .

the verses are very clear ,

all these verses annouced clearly that the God will provoke you by another nation , by taking the kingdom of god from you to another foolish nation .

my question is: when the kingdom of God will taken from you to other nation ? or it's already taken ? and you are already provoked by the fool nation

 

[Poisonshady313]

you just add another arguments to mind , thank you very much for your support , because they are too close to meaning to my verses.....God of course talking to the jews in all these verses , and all mention that the kingdom of God will taken from Jews to another nation .

The Deuteronomy verse doesn't say that.

my question is: when the kingdom of God will taken from you to other nation ? or it's already taken ?

It hasn't, and it won't.

and you are already provoked by the fool nation

It basically applies any time the Jews as a whole suffer at the hands of other nations.


When the Lord will have judged His people, He shall relent regarding His servants...
Deut 32:36

Commentary for Deut 32:36-43 Nothing can sever the bond between Israel and God; eventually, the closeness will be restored.

Artscroll Stone Edition Tanach

 

[McBell]

all these verses annouced clearly that the God will provoke you by another nation , by taking the kingdom of god from you to another foolish nation

Wow.
Talk about mental gymnastics.

 

[Levite]

I want you to explain to me this citation in this verse "Deuteronomy 32:21" "I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation "

Deuteronomy 32:21 " They have moved me to jealousy with that which is not God; they have provoked me to anger with their vanities: and I will move them to jealousy with those which are not a people;I will provoke them to anger with a foolish nation."
"

.God of course talking to the jews in all these verses , and all mention that the kingdom of God will taken from Jews to another nation .

the verses are very clear, all these verses annouced clearly that the God will provoke you by another nation , by taking the kingdom of god from you to another foolish nation .

my question is: when the kingdom of God will taken from you to other nation ? or it's already taken ? and you are already provoked by the fool nation

Obviously, I cannot speak for Christians, but as for Jewish tradition:

Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, our foremost classical commentator) and Ramban (Rabbi Moshe Nachmanides, another great classical commentator) associate this with the conquest of the Northern Kingdom of Israel by the Assyrians. Rabbenu Yakov ben Asher (a great commentator and halachist of the late Middle Ages or early Renaissance), citing a midrash of antique origin, associates it with the Babylonians, and their conquest of the Kingdom of Judah and destruction of the First Temple. Rabbi Ovadyah Sforno (a great late-Renaissance, pre-Enlightenment commentator) says it actually refers to both the Babylonians and the Romans, and the destruction of both Temples.

These are pretty much the exemplary understandings of the verse that nearly all authorities look toward.

In other words, we understand this verse to refer to specific punishments already carried out long ago, and not at all to suggest that in any way our covenant with God would be broken, or pass to another people, or any suchlike interpretation. Such things could never be.

 

[Godobeyer]

The Deuteronomy verse doesn't say that.

It hasn't, and it won't.

you just deny!!!!!!! , but you did not give us , how you understand it !!!!!
I guess all the word here could get the meaning,even the kids , you can't hide the true meaning .
that God is denied the Jews and choose another (foolish) Nation .

 

[Godobeyer]

It basically applies any time the Jews as a whole suffer at the hands of other nations.


When the Lord will have judged His people, He shall relent regarding His servants...
Deut 32:36

Commentary for Deut 32:36-43 Nothing can sever the bond between Israel and God; eventually, the closeness will be restored.

Artscroll Stone Edition Tanach

hhhhhhhhhhhhh
suffer at the hand of other nations you mean holocaust ???? you make a multi meaning here , but acuatly there is one meaning .
brother God was very clear , He said jealousy then provoke "not kill or suffered , siege or ......etc "

and HE said by one Nation "foolish nation" in that time , foolish nation is close to uncivilized nation in that era .

 

[Godobeyer]

Obviously, I cannot speak for Christians, but as for Jewish tradition:

Rashi (Rabbi Shlomo Yitzchaki, our foremost classical commentator) and Ramban (Rabbi Moshe Nachmanides, another great classical commentator) associate this with the conquest of the Northern Kingdom of Israel by the Assyrians. Rabbenu Yakov ben Asher (a great commentator and halachist of the late Middle Ages or early Renaissance), citing a midrash of antique origin, associates it with the Babylonians, and their conquest of the Kingdom of Judah and destruction of the First Temple. Rabbi Ovadyah Sforno (a great late-Renaissance, pre-Enlightenment commentator) says it actually refers to both the Babylonians and the Romans, and the destruction of both Temples.

These are pretty much the exemplary understandings of the verse that nearly all authorities look toward.

you always run around my point , the verses are very simple and clear , it's a promiss from God that he will choose another nation , and that mean you would be abandon , it's a decision done by God .to be jeolousy and provoked by the foolish nation

In other words, we understand this verse to refer to specific punishments already carried out long ago, and not at all to suggest that in any way our covenant with God would be broken, or pass to another people, or any suchlike interpretation. Such things could never be.

ah you mean that you already being jeolousy and provoked by the other nation that God chosen to provoke you ?

 

[Levite]

you always run around my point , the verses are very simple and clear , it's a promiss from God that he will choose another nation , and that mean you would be abandon , it's a decision done by God .to be jeolousy and provoked by the foolish nation

No, what I am saying is that we do not believe that is what those verses mean. Verses are, actually, very seldom "simple and clear," but rather are extremely nuanced and subject to interpretation...especially when they are read in the original Hebrew, and not in translations.

In any case, in these verses at hand, what Moses is promising is not that God will choose another nation to replace us in the covenant, but that God will repay our foolishness in practicing idolatry (the sin of the Golden Calf) with punishment using an idolatrous nation to inflict suffering upon us.

That has already come to pass a long time ago.

But God would never abandon us, and would never make our covenant with another nation.